I was at RBA for the infamous Costa Rica game and can confirm, that while there was a sizeable contingent of Costa Rica fans, it was an overwhelmingly pro-US crowd until the US started playing really really bad soccer. You could sense the players being tense and it spread to the stands. Btw it is not just US Soccer leaders who made up the "bad crowd" syndrome, it was despicably being said and repeated by Bradley and Altidore over and over again. That they ever played a US game again after that is beyond me.
The Costa Rica (Oct. 13) or Mexico (Nov. 12) qualifiers would have made more sense for St. Paul. Either would have been cold enough to be uncomfortable for a southern team, but not full-on winter cold. Apparently U.S. Soccer decided to give us the Carli Lloyd retirement game instead, which was cool, but also kind of random. So, yeah, I agree that organizers over-thought this.
There is some hyperbole surrounding this, though. The Twin Cities can be very cold, but the Winter Classic a few weeks ago was really the worst-case scenario in terms of temperature and it was fine. The Feb. 2 forecast is for weather in the teens. I get how that sounds really cold to people not used to it, but it's really not that cold. Everyone in Minnesota is equipped to be fairly comfortable standing for two hours in those conditions. The players will be fine too. I run outside in all temperatures, and anything above 10 degrees really doesn't affect you that much once you put on an extra layer and get your heart rate up. In fact, my most challenging outdoor run last year wasn't in below-zero temperatures in Minnesota but on a typical June day in St. Louis.
I'm not defending this Feb. 2 game being scheduled for Minnesota. It was needless risk.
That said, we're starting to take soccer way too seriously. The USMNT can only play in pristine conditions now? Fans can't be bothered to be a little uncomfortable? I get the perspective Grant and other journalists are looking at this game from, but consider that most of the fans attending this game will be looking at it as a unique opportunity. Sure, it'll be cold, probably a little uncomfortable at times, but it's also *fun* to bundle up in your warmest clothes and do something different. Most of the fans will embrace this opportunity to experience a USMNT game so unlike what we're used to seeing.
That's why the "farce" comment about the SnowClasico feels so wrong. Who the hell cares that the soccer wasn't great? Thinking back to that World Cup qualifying cycle, I can't remember a single detail about any other game, but I still remember where I was watching the SnowClasico, and I remember having a lot of fun watching something so different.
As European soccer becomes more and more sterile with all the big teams starting to feel the same, it's these games that are different that remind me why I started loving international soccer to begin with. It's the one sport where every country in the world plays, and each country puts their own spin on the game. We love the Euro because it's the most sophisticated, well-organized continental championship, just like we love watching the AFCON because it's neither of those things.
As U.S. soccer matures and starts to feel more and more like a big business, Concacaf keeps this joy in the game. I don't know why people like watching the U.S. basketball teams at the Olympics. I live for the richest country in the world sending its men's soccer team to El Salvador, and the experience being so hostile that a country the size of Missouri has a legitimate chance to win. The most fun I can remember watching a game in recent history was last year's Gold Cup final, when the U.S. and Mexico clashed in a way that was much deeper — and more chaotic — than simply two good teams meeting on a soccer field.
So I accept that some people out there want the pristine, the best players playing the most beautiful soccer in the most standard of settings. But give me the weird. If Canada has to host Mexico in the winter, damn right the game should be held on a snowy night in Edmonton because that's what Canada's like at that time of the year. And if the U.S. has to get a win in Honduras, let the Hondurans honk their car horns outside the hotel if they want. Soccer is a global game. The local cultures make it memorable and different.
If this Feb. 2 game was in Orlando and the U.S. won 2-0 playing with technical precision, nobody would remember it. Even if we all know it really shouldn't be in St. Paul in February, at least we'll remember it. And that makes it fun.
You mentioned that there "appears to be issues between [Brooks] and Berhalter." Any ideas what those are? He obviously skirted the question earlier today as he's been playing well and others (all the MLS players) aren't playing at all.
And I agree that playing in the north is a terrible idea. It will very possibly negate much of our superior talent.
Totally agree with the analysis. The US, significantly stronger than El Salvador and Honduras CHOSE to move away from a soccer match on grass, on which they have an advantage, to a pinball game on frozen turf, on which - who knows? We've never tested it before.
The US may win both matches - the US is a better team, and plays at home - but the chances are smaller than if playing in Texas or Florida, risking life and limb in the tundra is absolutely reckless. Who's dumb idea was it?
Plus, if I'm the match ref, I'd make sure to punish the idiots who brought me to St Paul to run around for 90 minutes in -4 degree weather (God knows what will be the windchill). I will make an effort to highlight the stupidity of this choice by awarding penalties and red cards to my ungracious hosts.
The game isn't meant to be played in frigid weather. It's not good for the players or the fans. The home pitch advantage should be the crowd, not the weather. It's a move that communicates a lack of confidence when well-earned swagger is in order.
I live in Minneapolis and I've long dreamed of a qualifier in my state. But, I'm super disappointed it's happening on this match day. Bruce McGuire is 100% right about this. I'm also worried that a bad game experience will mean it's a long time before we see another meaningful game played here.
I was at RBA for the infamous Costa Rica game and can confirm, that while there was a sizeable contingent of Costa Rica fans, it was an overwhelmingly pro-US crowd until the US started playing really really bad soccer. You could sense the players being tense and it spread to the stands. Btw it is not just US Soccer leaders who made up the "bad crowd" syndrome, it was despicably being said and repeated by Bradley and Altidore over and over again. That they ever played a US game again after that is beyond me.
Wait... Those of us who have paid subscriptions are called Founding Members? And can Zoom chat with Grant?!? I'm in!
The Costa Rica (Oct. 13) or Mexico (Nov. 12) qualifiers would have made more sense for St. Paul. Either would have been cold enough to be uncomfortable for a southern team, but not full-on winter cold. Apparently U.S. Soccer decided to give us the Carli Lloyd retirement game instead, which was cool, but also kind of random. So, yeah, I agree that organizers over-thought this.
There is some hyperbole surrounding this, though. The Twin Cities can be very cold, but the Winter Classic a few weeks ago was really the worst-case scenario in terms of temperature and it was fine. The Feb. 2 forecast is for weather in the teens. I get how that sounds really cold to people not used to it, but it's really not that cold. Everyone in Minnesota is equipped to be fairly comfortable standing for two hours in those conditions. The players will be fine too. I run outside in all temperatures, and anything above 10 degrees really doesn't affect you that much once you put on an extra layer and get your heart rate up. In fact, my most challenging outdoor run last year wasn't in below-zero temperatures in Minnesota but on a typical June day in St. Louis.
I'm not defending this Feb. 2 game being scheduled for Minnesota. It was needless risk.
That said, we're starting to take soccer way too seriously. The USMNT can only play in pristine conditions now? Fans can't be bothered to be a little uncomfortable? I get the perspective Grant and other journalists are looking at this game from, but consider that most of the fans attending this game will be looking at it as a unique opportunity. Sure, it'll be cold, probably a little uncomfortable at times, but it's also *fun* to bundle up in your warmest clothes and do something different. Most of the fans will embrace this opportunity to experience a USMNT game so unlike what we're used to seeing.
That's why the "farce" comment about the SnowClasico feels so wrong. Who the hell cares that the soccer wasn't great? Thinking back to that World Cup qualifying cycle, I can't remember a single detail about any other game, but I still remember where I was watching the SnowClasico, and I remember having a lot of fun watching something so different.
As European soccer becomes more and more sterile with all the big teams starting to feel the same, it's these games that are different that remind me why I started loving international soccer to begin with. It's the one sport where every country in the world plays, and each country puts their own spin on the game. We love the Euro because it's the most sophisticated, well-organized continental championship, just like we love watching the AFCON because it's neither of those things.
As U.S. soccer matures and starts to feel more and more like a big business, Concacaf keeps this joy in the game. I don't know why people like watching the U.S. basketball teams at the Olympics. I live for the richest country in the world sending its men's soccer team to El Salvador, and the experience being so hostile that a country the size of Missouri has a legitimate chance to win. The most fun I can remember watching a game in recent history was last year's Gold Cup final, when the U.S. and Mexico clashed in a way that was much deeper — and more chaotic — than simply two good teams meeting on a soccer field.
So I accept that some people out there want the pristine, the best players playing the most beautiful soccer in the most standard of settings. But give me the weird. If Canada has to host Mexico in the winter, damn right the game should be held on a snowy night in Edmonton because that's what Canada's like at that time of the year. And if the U.S. has to get a win in Honduras, let the Hondurans honk their car horns outside the hotel if they want. Soccer is a global game. The local cultures make it memorable and different.
If this Feb. 2 game was in Orlando and the U.S. won 2-0 playing with technical precision, nobody would remember it. Even if we all know it really shouldn't be in St. Paul in February, at least we'll remember it. And that makes it fun.
You mentioned that there "appears to be issues between [Brooks] and Berhalter." Any ideas what those are? He obviously skirted the question earlier today as he's been playing well and others (all the MLS players) aren't playing at all.
And I agree that playing in the north is a terrible idea. It will very possibly negate much of our superior talent.
Totally agree with the analysis. The US, significantly stronger than El Salvador and Honduras CHOSE to move away from a soccer match on grass, on which they have an advantage, to a pinball game on frozen turf, on which - who knows? We've never tested it before.
The US may win both matches - the US is a better team, and plays at home - but the chances are smaller than if playing in Texas or Florida, risking life and limb in the tundra is absolutely reckless. Who's dumb idea was it?
Plus, if I'm the match ref, I'd make sure to punish the idiots who brought me to St Paul to run around for 90 minutes in -4 degree weather (God knows what will be the windchill). I will make an effort to highlight the stupidity of this choice by awarding penalties and red cards to my ungracious hosts.
The game isn't meant to be played in frigid weather. It's not good for the players or the fans. The home pitch advantage should be the crowd, not the weather. It's a move that communicates a lack of confidence when well-earned swagger is in order.
I live in Minneapolis and I've long dreamed of a qualifier in my state. But, I'm super disappointed it's happening on this match day. Bruce McGuire is 100% right about this. I'm also worried that a bad game experience will mean it's a long time before we see another meaningful game played here.