Written Version: Landon, Wahl and Witty on Jamaica 1, USMNT 1
The Boys Break Down a Point Away in CONCACAF
As we do after every USMNT World Cup qualifier, I was joined by Landon Donovan and Chris Wittyngham to discuss the USMNT’s 1-1 tie at Jamaica in Kingston. I really enjoyed this discussion and think you will too.
Grant Wahl:
Hey there. Welcome to Landon, Wahl and Witty on the Road to Qatar. I'm Grant Wahl. Thanks so much for joining me. We've got a special episode in partnership with Meadowlark and Le Batard and friends with reaction from Landon Donovan, Chris Wittyngham and me to the U.S. men's national team’s 1-1 tie against Jamaica on World Cup qualifying Matchday 8. Landon's with us tonight, I think from Southern California. You in San Diego, Landon?
Landon Donovan:
I'm in San Diego. Yes.
Grant Wahl:
Awesome. Witty's in South Florida. I'm in Kingston, Jamaica, where I'm writing for my Substack newsletter, which you should sign up for free or pay at grantwahl.com to get my posts in your inbox. Guys, it's great to be with you. How are you?
Landon Donovan:
What's going on, Witty?
Chris Wittyngham:
I didn't love that performance, but it's a point on the road and I'm told that that's what you're supposed to get. It's a point on the road. So I guess I'm okay with it.
Grant Wahl:
This was a really interesting one guys, just doing some postgame interviews with the players in particular. They're disappointed about this, which I know we've discussed this over time. Getting a point on the road in Concacaf World Cup Qualifying is not a bad thing, as long as you're getting three points at home. U.S. has been doing that lately. But it was just interesting to see this sort of reaction from the players here. It was pretty muted. They felt they could have gotten three points. Landon, what was your sense of the whole thing?
Landon Donovan:
Exactly what I expected as I always say. So listen. All the factors, if you just took everything out of it, and you said U.S. against Jamaica on neutral ground without having played a game three days earlier, et cetera, et cetera, you'd say, "Okay." You'd be disappointed in a 1-1 result. I know very well all the factors involved. So hugely emotional game against Mexico. It is so difficult three days later to get up emotionally for a game against one of the bottom dwellers of the group, away with lots of travel, plus the physical recovery involved. It's just difficult and not an easy place to play, not a great field, no atmosphere in the stadium, all these different reasons. And that makes it difficult. So in the end, just take the point, get on the plane, go back to your clubs and we'll see you in the new year.
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Grant Wahl:
Chris, what stood that to you in this game?
Chris Wittyngham:
Well, I think I would be surprised that the U.S. players felt like they deserved more from that game, because their performance did not. I mean, the only thing that deserved a win from that is that they were 1-0 up. But after that, they didn't really play very well. And I thought they left a lot out there just in terms of their attacking play. They couldn't really keep possession of the ball very much. Gianluca Busio, I thought, was the only player that was helping them tick, but didn't offer really anything else and didn't really offer much threat in the final third. He's certainly a player that was a lightning rod for conversation tonight. But I think, in the overall, I really hated that playing surface. It just, you can tell how much it hurts the United States' ability to play. They're just not used to it.
Everything that we saw from Yunus Musah that we loved in Cincinnati on Friday, it's negated by the playing surface. And it was also revealed after the game that he had strep throat as well. So he was kind of playing through it as well. And then I think, when you just look at Jamaica, everything except for their front three is basically a really high end USL team or a low end MLS team. But that front three, just by virtue of the names and the pedigrees, they can summon a moment. And that's exactly, that's all they did is they summed a moment.
Although, I mean, they probably frankly, should have won the game considering the chance that Bobby Decordova-Reid had, and the goal that was disallowed from Damion Lowe as well, but Decordova-Reid, Michail Antonio and Leon Bailey. That's Premier League pedigree up top. If they played in a U.S. shirt we’d be like, "Oh, wow. Look, they've got three players who have been in the Premier League up top." And so, those are real threats and Antonio summoned a moment and they probably could have snuck away with all three points, given the other two chances that they had.
Grant Wahl:
Two really good goals in this game though, Tim Weah putting the U.S. up 11 minutes in, third straight, good game for Weah, even though he did tail off in the second half. He said he got really tired, and here's a guy who's not playing 90 minutes every game at club level right now. And then, Antonio with maybe the best goal I've seen somebody score against the U.S. in quite a while. And that totally changed Jamaica because until that point, the U.S. was completely bossing this game. The goal kind of comes out of nowhere from distance. But then after that, it seemed like it perked Jamaica up and they actually performed more toe to toe with the U.S. for the rest of the game. And I felt like what Chris said is true, that if one of these teams looked like they were going to win the game in the second half, it was Jamaica, not the United States.
Landon Donovan:
Yeah. I agree with that, Grant. And, my experiences playing against Jamaican teams is very much rhythm based. And confidence based, when things are going their way and things are going well, they play better, especially at home. And so, when the U.S. come out, score the goal sort of on top of the game, Jamaica looked like a bottom feeder in the group, and then they score the goal and everything changes. And so the momentum shifted. They actually had real belief again. And to be honest, probably should have had a man sent off with the tackle on Tyler Adams. And were fortunate not to have that, but they were much better the rest of the game. And I'll just say it again, if you're the U.S., just get out of Jamaica, get on the flight out of Kingston, take the point and we'll see you in the new year.
Chris Wittyngham:
But I guess, the U.S. fans’ response and I saw when Gregg Berhalter said that a lot of the responses were, "Why are you happy with this? Why are you happy with a point?" And I understand, that's the formula, right? This is basic math. You're trying to get to ... I saw on Twitter, it's basically 1.7 points per game is enough to qualify you for the World Cup. If you win all your home games and draw your away games, you're at two points per game and you're doing the math. But there was a feeling coming off the Mexico game that it was a step forward. And again, we've done a few of these pods with away Concacaf matches. And you're wondering, what is it that you're not able to replicate away from home? Why does a goal deflate you in that way?
Landon Donovan:
But Witty, we're going to have this re-education process every four years with new U.S. fans. And it's amazing that we are having these conversations because it means we're bringing new U.S. fans in all the time. Every time we qualify and then make a World Cup, we're bringing in new fans. But the reality is, I can promise you if we're sitting here in 12 years, we're going to have the same conversation. Why couldn't they beat El Salvador? Look at all these guys playing at Barcelona and Real Madrid. And it's just, we're going to have the same conversation every time. It's not easy. And there's all these mitigating factors and you saw it again tonight.
Grant Wahl:
Maybe we should have titled our podcast, The Re-education Camp.
Landon Donovan:
Exactly.
Grant Wahl:
But I do want to talk a little bit about the absences for the U.S. in this game and the impact that they had on it. So Miles Robinson out, first time he hasn't played, I think, in qualifying. I thought Chris Richards was fine replacing him in this game. Now Weston McKennie, out on a yellow card suspension. And I wrote this after the game. And I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are. I feel like the central midfield three of McKennie, Adams, and Musah is so far in away the best central midfield for this U.S. team right now. And I feel like if you don't have all three of them, you're going to have some issues. That just seems to be what happens here. And I almost feel like they're so complementary to each other that the whole becomes better than the sum of the parts in a way.
And I thought that not having McKennie out there, Musah didn't play as well. Adams didn't play quite as well as he normally does. And Busio wasn't bad or anything. And he had a really nice shot attempt on goal at one point, but it was just different and it wasn't quite as effective. And you're playing on the road and I realize there's other factors here, but I just feel like that central midfield three really works well together. And you can tell when even just one of them is not there.
Landon Donovan:
So I'm going to beat a dead horse and Witty, you just tell me to shut up, but this is why, again, I got so frustrated when Weston made those decisions. And they're just a different team when he's not on the field versus when he is. And would he have made a difference that won the game at this point? At this point I would bet money, yes. You can say in the Canada game, well, who knows, but I think he would've made a difference tonight. Maybe he breaks up the play where Michail Antonio scores the goal. Maybe he gets in the box and gets on the end of a header. You just don't know. And so that's why you need him on the field. And you saw it again tonight when he's not on the field, we just look like a different team. Tyler Adams and Musah were fine. Nothing, they weren't terrible. They were fine. But that combination of three, and tell me if you disagree, Witty, but they are just, like Grant said, just better than what we have right now.
Chris Wittyngham:
I guess my feeling would be a level of concern off of that, that there isn't someone who I feel can step in. I was really hoping that Busio would have a better game. I think it's a really tough spot for him to be in, just because I think a lot of that game, if you look at the three-man midfield of Jamaica, it's all about physicality. It's all about being able to get stuck in. And that's not really Busio's strength. I think he's getting better in Italy. It's a perfect league for him to learn that. But he's 19.
And I thought, Daniel Salloi had a nice backing of his former teammate when he said, "Hey, do you remember your first game in World Cup qualifying when you were starting at 19? It's tough." But to your point, Landon and Grant, Weston McKennie has not started an away World Cup qualifier since the opening day against El Salvador. And you can't imagine there's a player that's better suited to the style of play away in Concacaf in the U.S. team than Weston McKennie. I guess I’d just ask you, what do you feel like that indispensability is with Weston? What do you feel like the U.S. lack through his absence?
Landon Donovan:
That's a good question. So I'll answer first. Grant, I'm curious to hear what you have to say. First of all, there's a physicality, that Busio is a very good player, but Weston just has a physicality about him. That's different. He covers ground differently. He wins duels differently. He tackles differently and he gets on the end of crosses, gets himself in the box and scores goals, which is different. And then there's a dynamic between the three of them that it's hard to pinpoint. You can't necessarily pinpoint chemistry and why that is, but there is, it's become clear. And so Busio might be the right guy, eventually too, or maybe he's the fourth guy to those three or Kellyn Acosta is the fourth to those three. But right now, those two just don't have the chemistry, Kellyn Acosta and Busio, that the other three have. And, you're seeing that grow game after game.
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Grant Wahl:
I mean, for me, it's energy if it comes down to one word with McKennie and it's not like he's always the most skilled player ever. So it's not that though he's capable at times. And he finished a nice goal the other night against Mexico. You see McKennie put himself in positions, whether it's with the U.S. or with Juventus that he can finish in certain plays. And there's just so much energy. He covers so much ground and it really feeds the team. And I do think that was missing to an extent with his absence here. And I was slightly surprised actually, that Busio got the start instead of Acosta. And I do wonder a little bit if ... I think Acosta is kind of variable in his performances as well. I thought he was tremendous in the Gold Cup final.
I thought, down in Panama, he was not good. He sort of self-admittedly said he was not good in that game. And so there's been some variability in performances. He comes on and this game tonight and was fine. But I do wonder if there might have been a bit more solidity if he had started instead of Busio, but I don't want to sound like I'm harshing on Busio's performance tonight. I don't think it was bad necessarily, and he been having some good performances in Italy for Venezia, even better than I expected this early in his career over there. So look, it's a point. The U.S. is, it's looking since we're recording this at 10:25 PM Eastern, Canada, just went up 2-0 on Mexico. So it's looking like Canada's going to go into first place here with the U.S. second, and Mexico in third and Tata Martino may be on his way out in Mexico. We'll see on that one.
But, I wanted to ask you about Tim Weah as well, because this is a guy who we weren't sure what kind of an influence he was going to have in this qualifying. And now this is three straight games. He had one game down in Panama where he wasn't very good, three good games since then, appears to be making a real impact on important goals for this U.S. team. What are you seeing from Tim Weah, Landon?
Landon Donovan:
Maturation. He looks … a lot of times, young players, you say talented, talented. He has potential. And that's what he looked like when I would watch him play early on with some minutes here at PSG, some minutes with the national team. To me now, he looks like he is becoming a mature player. He's not the final product yet, but he just looks mature and he knows how to impact the game in a real way. And we saw that tonight, just pulled a playoff by himself and made a play. And that's what these games take sometimes when it's sloppy, ugly, but I've seen him just in his performances, not listening to him or speaking to him, he just looks like a more mature player now. It's been fun to watch him grow.
Chris Wittyngham:
And the other aspect of Weah's performances is that his career early has been so stop-start by virtue of the number of injuries that he's had. And this is probably his best run of health, as well as his best run of performances. He's starting to get into the Lille team more often, that's a team that played at a very high level last year. He had to elevate his game so that they can win a league title. Now he's playing more this year after they sold off a couple of pieces. And you can see, as Landon said, a maturation. I was actually kind of a bit of a Tim Weah skeptic, just because of the injuries that he had had, because when I had seen him in a U.S. shirt, I just never thought he was that impressive.
But I think the one thing you're seeing from him most, especially by comparison to the rest of the team, is how good his service has been from wide areas and how often even the other chances that the U.S. created, it's him in wide areas getting involved. I thought that one-two, considering the playing surface, considering the opponent, considering it’s Concacaf, that's a really high quality goal that the U.S. can score away from home, that Weah managed to put the finish on, putting it beyond Andre Blake who's one of the best goalkeepers in the region and has come up with stellar saves before. But I think what you're seeing from Weah is, you can very clearly identify a skillset that really not a lot of other guys are providing. Antonee Robinson, DeAndre Yedlin and from wide areas have not been putting good crosses in recent times. He's really the only one that's getting good service in from wide areas. And that I think makes him an indispensable part of the team now.
Grant Wahl:
One guy I want to ask everyone about is Ricardo Pepi, who obviously got off to such a great start, scores down in Honduras, two goals in Austin against Jamaica, has not scored for the U.S. since then. He's getting starts. He's 18, and I'm wondering, have we been putting too much pressure on Ricardo Pepi? Is this too much too soon?
Landon Donovan:
Well, first of all, I don't think Ricardo Pepi cares what we have to say. So there's no pressure coming from us to Ricardo Pepi. Just make that clear. But we do this every time, Grant. Every time a new player comes on the scene, we do it every time and we say, "Well, maybe we should slow down. He's only 18. Give him some more performances, whatever." He's been playing the same way when he scored the goals versus when he didn't. It's just the goals are going in and hitting the net and getting the chances. So he's going to be fine. He's 18. To be starting qualifiers for one of the top teams in the region at 18 is phenomenal. He will be fine.
The chance chances will keep coming because this team is going to create tons of chances. They have home games against Honduras, El Salvador coming. There are going to be tons of chances and he will keep scoring goals, but it's fine. He's doing fine. He's still had a lot of half-chances in the Mexico game that sometimes go in for him, but he's providing a valuable service to the team right now and the goals will come.
Chris Wittyngham:
Yeah. He's been a bit starved of the ball, I think in kind of threatening positions in these last couple of games in particular. So I wouldn't kind of ding him, I guess. It's just that the reason why I kind of think of it is because whenever U.S. strikers have struggled previously, they very quickly get replaced. I mean, you go back to the beginning until they stumble upon Pepi. They tried [Josh] Sargent. They tried [Jordan] Pefok. They tried false nines before. They've tried [Jesús] Ferreira in this window off the bench. You wonder if maybe Daryl Dike ended the season on good form with Orlando scoring seven goals in their last nine, does he eventually get a call back in, maybe in this December camp that's coming with a friendly against Bosnia and Herzegovina, maybe he gets back into the team and who knows?
I just think that with Pepi not scoring in three games, you leave the chance open that maybe another striker can come forward. Norwich have a new manager in Dean Smith, maybe Josh Sargent finds a run a form there, and maybe he's back in the fold. There's all kinds of things that can happen between now and January. And I think, Pepi not scoring does kind of open the door a little bit. Yes, he scored massive goals in Honduras, or one massive goal and then was the provider for the others. But, I don't know. I just kind of wonder if maybe Gregg is kind of thinking, "Let's reassess this striker pool now that Pepi is not quite hitting the heights he was at the beginning."
Landon Donovan:
This is going to sound weird coming from me guys. But just because you're not scoring doesn't mean you're not valuable to the team, right? So I don't put as much stock as most people do in scoring goals as a striker. Yes, it's the most crucial part of a soccer game. But if you're providing a service to your team and the team is still scoring goals and you're successful, then it's fine.
Just a little story, my first year in San Jose with the Earthquakes I didn't score I think for the first eight or 10 matches. And I was playing every minute of every game, but I hadn't scored as a striker. And Frank Yallop, my coach, just said, "Landon, we haven't lost in nine games. You're playing well. The goals will come. Don't worry about it." And he stuck with me and I started scoring. So you don't need to worry so much, in my opinion, about the goals. Just look at the performance. Is he helping the team get results? And right now, he is.
Chris Wittyngham:
So what for you does he do off the ball? Because I think a lot of people have questioned his hold up, play. What do you see in terms of the other aspects of his game?
Landon Donovan:
The biggest thing I think he does now that he scored some goals is he strikes some fear in people and he occupies opponents. So if you have a striker who you think is dangerous and is really going to score goals, you're worried about him. And that opens up space for Weah, for Pulisic when he is in, for Reyna when he is back, for Weston McKennie to arrive late, for Musah, for Aaronson. It provides opportunity in space for other players to make late runs, deep runs from the midfield and get chances to score. So you have to be occupying guys and be an actual threat. He didn't score against Mexico, but he was a threat. There was some half-chances. And I think he's doing a good enough job right now to retain a spot.
Grant Wahl:
So one more follow up I've got for you on Pepi is, as I understand it, well, his team Dallas is not in the MLS playoffs, so he's going to have sort of a dormant period here. But as I understand it, Ricardo Pepi is preparing to join a European team in January. And that's going to be an interesting one for me because, I guess my question is, do you want him doing that in a World Cup year? Do you want him doing that ahead of the next round of qualifiers coming in late January to be going to Europe and making that adjustment? Or would you prefer that he stay with FC Dallas where he is comfortable and scoring goals?
Landon Donovan:
Well, in 2010, I did that. I went to Everton in the off season and I think it helped me a lot, to be honest. I would say, if he were 30, 31 years old, you'd say, he probably needs the break. At 18, he's not played a lot of games in his career. I think it's good for him. I think it's good for him to see different players, different challenges, a different level in some ways, depending on where he goes. But I think that's valuable for him. So I'm all for it. I don't know. I don't know if you guys feel differently, but I'm all for it.
Chris Wittyngham:
I've always kind of wondered the notion of the World Cup year thing. Now, maybe it's probably cost players in the past and just in terms of they weren't in form. And so, they weren't picked and that's always dangerous. I think, if he stays at FC Dallas, he guarantees he'll be on the plane to Qatar. But I also think that he is very clearly showing an ambition to play at a higher level, reportedly handed in a transfer request a couple of months ago. And I don't think that these two things are probably related in his head. "I'm just going to keep going. I'm on this trajectory. I've scored goals in MLS. I've scored goals internationally. Now I'm going to go score goals in Europe." I think his choice of club will be interesting presuming that there are a number of choices out there.
You would certainly hope he goes to a place where he can at least get some minutes, if not start every week, just because I mean, an 18 year old going into any major European team, you'd have to be a phenom who's crushing it in training every day, which maybe Pepi is, in order to earn a starting spot at the kind of clubs that we're talking about. But I think he probably of the mind of, "Yeah, I'll probably be on the plane regardless and I'm going to go continue my career wherever it is best for me."
Landon Donovan:
Grant, do you feel differently since the World Cup's in November, meaning he won't have a break for the next, whatever, 12 months?
Grant Wahl:
It's not so much about a break. It's just that when you went on loan at Everton, you played. You played from the moment you got there and you also put yourself in the position to get playing time from the start because you arrived really fit. I have no concerns really about Ricardo Pepi's fitness. It's just about, if he doesn't go on loan, but gets sold to a team in Europe in January, how long is it going to take him to integrate with that new team? Let's say it's Wolfsburg, which apparently has a lot of interest in Ricardo Pepi. New coach there, you come in mid-season. I think he's still going to be 18. And you've got qualifiers in late January. What if you're not getting that many minutes? Does Gregg Berhalter stop starting him at the number nine position? I guess where I'm sort of looking at it is, maybe Ricardo Pepi might be in a better position to make that move after the World Cup than before.
Landon Donovan:
I think it's a fair point, actually. You said it Witty, the club he chooses is what matters, or where he decides to go is what matters. If he’s not playing, he is not a shoe-in starter for the national team. And he is not a shoe-in 23 man roster guy for the World Cup. So you have to be playing. There are enough good players that if he's not playing, then he puts himself firmly on the bubble. So he needs to be careful.
Grant Wahl:
I'm wondering if you're looking at some of the guys who are performing this week here, and this is an interesting one to me because you bring up the idea of who might not even be on the plane to Qatar. And I know the U.S. still has to qualify, so I don't want to get ahead of ourselves too much. But what's interesting to me is, there are some prominent players, and I'm looking at the back line, who might not even be shoe-ins to be on the plane to Qatar. Like Walker Zimmerman for example, who I think has played well for the U.S. in central defense, wasn't even called in to the roster at first last month, ends up being called in and ends up being captain at one point. But that's a guy who I don't think is guaranteed a spot on the plane. And if John Brooks isn't getting called in this time around, is he not guaranteed a spot on the plane to Qatar? And I'm wondering how many guys are there on this team who would be guaranteed a spot on the plane at this point?
Landon Donovan:
Well, no one's guaranteed a spot at this point. You never know what can happen with anybody.
Chris Wittyngham:
I would say Christian Pulisic.
Landon Donovan:
I would say Christian's guaranteed. I would say Tyler Adams. Weston should be guaranteed a spot. But there's not many. I mean, you have to perform. We've seen it time and time again. So you just never know what's going to happen. So guys have to be performing. This is a crucial year for every player to make sure they are somewhere where they are playing games consistently. That is the most important thing.
Chris Wittyngham:
I would actually say, my favorite of the players who are featuring at the moment to not make it would actually be DeAndre Yedlin, which is a bit harsh on him because I thought, today he had a decent performance, probably in the first hour, I would say. I think the lack of progressive passing from him is probably something that Gregg Berhalter doesn't love. I think he's always kind of preferred a Reggie Cannon type. You obviously have Sergiño Dest at that position. So I would actually say that he's probably, of the guys who are featuring right now, my favorite to not make it to the plane in Qatar. But that depends on the position, because we thought that the U.S. was going to have a glut of right backs.
Bryan Reynolds got sold to Roma. Reggie Cannon went to Portugal. But their club situations have deteriorated kind of as the warning sign to Pepi. Hey, if you don't pick the right club, this can go pear-shaped really quickly. But now all of a sudden, you're looking at that right back situation and maybe Yedlin does make it. But I also, I don't think that he would be Gregg Berhalter's first choice.
Grant Wahl:
Pear-shaped, fancy lad with the British-sm. Thank you, my man!
Landon Donovan:
He's really come a long way.
Grant Wahl:
Actually Landon, it's interesting you brought that up about players who've had major roles in the game that qualifies the U.S. for a World Cup not ending up being involved in the World Cup team itself. This goes all the way back to 2005, Steve Ralston scoring a goal in the game that clinched the berth for the World Cup, didn't make that roster. 2009, Conor Casey obviously had the Conor Casey game down in Honduras where the U.S. clinched a berth. He didn't end up making that roster. And even 2013, a guy who scored in the game that qualified didn't make that roster [Landon]. So it became kind of a curse almost in a way, but just a coincidence maybe.
Landon Donovan:
Yeah. And in a normal World Cup cycle, there's still six months or so usually seven months, eight months. This time there's going to be, well, I guess, depending on qualifying and maybe it's not as long, or maybe it's not too much longer than that, but there's just so much time and so much can happen in between that you're never guaranteed a spot.
Grant Wahl:
It's kind of crazy, actually. The World Cup is going to start exactly one year from right now. And I'm still trying to get adjusted to that idea of a World Cup being in November and December. We had a meeting with U.S. Soccer about Qatar and the whole process the other day. And I asked them if they were going to get Thanksgiving turkeys for us in Qatar. I don't know if they have turkeys in Qatar, to be honest, but it's just going to be a surreal World Cup. Obviously, we're starting to see teams qualify and clinch berths, mostly from Europe at this point.
And, before we sign off here, I'm just kind of curious on your thoughts. I mean, Italy and Portugal are the two heavyweight teams in Europe that are going to be going to the playoff now because they couldn't seal the deal in the last week of qualifying. Now they find themselves in this position, and I look at the U.S. and where the U.S. is in the standings. And because Panama's playing so well and they won again tonight, this is really a four team race. And, we feel like the U.S. is on track and they are to qualify, but you really don't want to finish fourth and be in some intercontinental playoff because that really puts things on a knife edge.
Landon Donovan:
It's actually, it's a great point, Grant. And at least now as an outsider, when you go into this process, you're looking at it as you have to finish fourth at worst to get in. But the reality is you have to finish third. And sometimes, we forget that because you look at a standings table and you say, "Oh, the top four." But the fourth has, instead of a green mark next to it, it has a yellow mark, meaning you still have to qualify. The U.S. right now are just one point ahead of that line of finishing fourth, and for as good of a feeling as we've had the last few times out, that can slip quickly. They still have to go to Azteca, still have to go to Costa Rica, have some challenging games. But, should we qualify? Yeah. But you never know. And there's still a lot left to be played for.
Chris Wittyngham:
Yeah. I think looking at Panama in fourth, you're kind of wondering, "Wait, hang on a second. Are they going to take a spot off Mexico or off the U.S. or off ...?" I mean, Canada at this point looks like they're on their way. But, yeah. I mean, Panama have been the best of that rest of the group. They were 1-0 down after 15 seconds today at home against El Salvador and U.S. fans watching that and hoping that El Salvador can hang on, Panama that scores two goals in three minutes to take the lead at home. They win again at home, and now you're going to be scoreboard watching their games. And then you head into the final window. The U.S.'s final window is away in Mexico, home Panama, away Costa Rica in March. And maybe it comes down to that home Panama game just to make sure that the U.S. qualify automatically for the World Cup.
But I think U.S. fans are probably hoping for some more breathing room and maybe why there is that sense of disappointment to bring it back to where you started, Grant, in the locker room is, "Hey, if you win that game, that's maybe two points you weren't expecting. And that's maybe an opportunity to qualify automatically more comfortably."
Landon Donovan:
Yeah. Well, just losing the game to Panama now is looking bigger and bigger. And then I just want to run through Panama's last six games. So they're away to Costa Rica, a team that they play all the time. They don't fear. I'm sure they feel they can get at least a point there. They're home to Jamaica. They should win. At Mexico, probably going to lose.
Chris Wittyngham:
It'll be Miguel Herrera's Mexico. It'll be very exciting.
Landon Donovan:
Then they're home to Honduras, should and probably will win. And then that U.S. game against us will be a huge game. So they probably feel if they steal a point there and then they’re home to Canada the last day, maybe Canada qualifies by then. So their schedule's pretty favorable, and U.S. needs, we need a lot of points from the next few fixtures, because that last three is going to be a real challenge.
Chris Wittyngham:
I also checked the intercontinental playoffs have not yet been decided in terms of who's playing who, but I'm a little terrified that I'm checking this Wiki page.
Grant Wahl:
I will say this guys, this is the last one of these podcasts we're going to be doing until late January. So I do hope you have a very good holiday season with your families. And is there anything left in your mind that over the next couple of months here as we come back in late January with this qualifying is going to be on your mind that we haven't talked about?
Landon Donovan:
I'm curious to see which of the European players are in form because let's be honest, when you're playing January 27, 30th, and February 2nd, it's going to be difficult to have MLS players that are really ready to play World Cup qualifiers. A lot of them will have been training and maybe a bunch of them go on loan, probably be ideal, but you're going to have a big contingent of European players. So who's playing, first of all, and who's playing well will determine I think the lineup that you'll see in those three games, because it's hard to put a player in who hasn't been playing games in two or three games in a six day period. So that to me will be really interesting to see how that shapes out.
Chris Wittyngham:
Mine, so number one, I want to see a Concacaf game that doesn't have any of those horns. Those horns today were obnoxious on the broadcast. Oh my God. They were honestly worse than vuvuzelas, because vuvuzelas had some bass. It wasn't quite as high pitch. That high pitch horn is awful. And second, I want to do one podcast in 2022 where we come on and Landon Donovan says, "That defied my expectations of an away World Cup qualifier. The U.S. bossed the game in possession and beat a team 3-0 with a comprehensive possession based performance." I want to defy Landon's expectations of away qualifiers just once, and maybe it's at Azteca. Who knows? But I want to see it just once in 2022.
Landon Donovan:
Well, the other thing I want to see, and then I want to hear what you have, what you want to see Grant is, I want to see one game where we have Weston and Tyler and Musah and Christian and Gio all on the field together and see what that looks like. And maybe it's Weah, or maybe it's Brenden Aaronson, or maybe it's Pepi, but I want to see those five on the field together to see what that looks like.
Grant Wahl:
I mean, that's what I was going to say is just how often have we seen Christian Pulisic at full strength in this qualifying tournament the first eight games? I mean, just barely. I mean, Gio Reyna gets hurt in the first qualifier and he's been out ever since. He's not even with Dortmund. He's been rehabbing in Texas with his family. So you want to see these players get back, and while the win over Mexico was really exciting, I still feel like we haven't seen the full complement of U.S. players. And because of injuries and the way the world works, we may not totally see that, but we've really missed several of these guys. And McKennie's missed a bunch of these games through yellow card suspension, Berhalter suspension, other stuff, Dest with his injuries. I mean, Dest obviously had a tremendous goal against Costa Rica. And so you'd like to see something close to the U.S. best 11 or something closer to it than we've seen to this point.
Landon Donovan:
Let me ask you. Can I ask you a question, Grant? Sorry to interject. For you guys, who is the most indispensable player right now after seeing eight qualifiers, would you say?
Grant Wahl:
Tyler Adams.
Landon Donovan:
You say Tyler, Witty?
Chris Wittyngham:
Yeah. I would agree with Tyler Adams. Yeah. Just because, the drop off from first to second on the depth chart I think is bigger than anywhere else. Although you can make an argument for the two positions in front of them, as you discussed earlier, the drop off from that kind of first and second number eights in Musah and McKennie to the third has proved to be a significant one as well.
Landon Donovan:
Yeah. I think that's fair. I mean-
Chris Wittyngham:
Because Pulisic has covered Aaronson, I think, that right wing position. I mean, maybe Weah has earned his way there, but Reyna would play there. But yeah, I think, it's all in center midfield. It's those three guys.
Grant Wahl:
Cool. Well guys, I hope you have a wonderful holiday season. We’ve got a little time left. We got Thanksgiving. We got Christmas coming and some good soccer coming too. MLS final, MLS playoffs, and a lot to look forward to with six more games in the World Cup qualifying campaign, which means six more podcasts with y'all. Thanks for joining me.
Landon Donovan:
Appreciate you guys.
Chris Wittyngham:
Thanks, Grant. Thank, Landon.
These discussions are incredibly informative. Grant is our man on the scene, but Landon’s been in the room and on the field. His insights are terrific. Thanks a ton. And Witty adds more of a fan perspective. Great group.
But I do wonder… All the talk about Steffen vs. Turner, and how Zach needs to play games between now and the end of January. I could be wrong, because maybe Turner got a loan deal to play in Europe that I’m not aware of, but just how many games is Turner going to play before January? Will he even be training? And Steffen is at least training with Manchester City - gotta think it’s quality stuff. Not taking sides here, but are those factors going forward?
Ok, so...January. Location of game? Temp?