The Interview: Jenny Chiu of CBS Sports

A Fun Conversation with a Rising Star in U.S. Soccer TV

Jenny Chiu is doing sideline for USMNT away World Cup qualifiers for CBS Sports

You never know who you might meet in the breakfast room of the random Rio de Janeiro hotel you’re staying at during the 2016 Summer Olympics. Jenny Chiu still had a year left at the University of North Carolina and was covering soccer (which she also played at UNC) as part of the Olympic News Service. She came over and introduced herself one morning, and we’ve been friends ever since. Last month we became colleagues at CBS Sports, and she was the host in the studio who tossed it to me for my first CBS hit, a report from Austin on the USMNT-Jamaica game.

It was about time that I did a podcast interview with Jenny. Here’s the written version of it, which I think you’ll enjoy.

Grant Wahl:

Hey there, welcome to Fútbol with Grant Wahl. Our guest now is a rising star in U.S. soccer television and one of my dear friends. Jenny Chiu is doing terrific work for CBS Sports for which I also happen to work. You can see her in CBS's coverage of the U.S. men's national team World Cup qualifiers, and the men's UEFA Champions League among other things. Jenny, it's great to see you. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

Jenny Chiu:

Of course, always Grant.

Grant Wahl:

So congratulations on everything you're doing these days. That includes your onsite reporting at U.S. World Cup qualifiers in Panama, Honduras and Costa Rica so far. Could you explain to our listeners what that is like for you being on the field and doing work in environments that are at times hostile to the U.S. team?

Jenny Chiu:

Actually, yeah, so I obviously did onsite stuff for Champions League, and the CONCACAF stuff is very different. We actually hire security, so that's different than when we do Champions League, of course, and there's fences and there are things being thrown. I mean, in Panama and in Honduras, both times things were thrown in our direction. Honduras, it was toward the Honduran team, which was crazy to me. But in Panama things were being thrown, people were jumping over and stuff. You don't see that in Champions League as much, so that's definitely one of the differences. But other than that, all these countries are Spanish-speaking, so I feel pretty at home when I'm there and I'm used to it. You know, I grew up in CONCACAF.

Grant Wahl:

I mean, I'm on site at all these games, so I'm able to sort of observe what you're doing leading up to a game, and then I'm in the comfort of the stands during a game while you're doing your thing on the field. And I'm wondering if you could sort of lead our listeners through what are some of the things you'll do to prepare for a U.S. World Cup qualifier on the road, kind of in the couple days leading up to it, and then what are you doing on gameday itself?

“I grew up watching the Mexican national team, and you can win 3-0 and the media is still going to crush you for certain decisions you made, the way that this person played, the way that that person played. It's just never good enough. And so for me, that was totally normal and not a hit on Gregg [Berhalter], a hit on the team, like that was just my analysis of the game.” — Jenny Chiu

Jenny Chiu:

I think very similarly to you and the other reporters that are also traveling with the team, going to the press conferences, we get interviews beforehand for our pregame show when we're the rights holders, so I do those. Talking to as many people as I can, listening to everything that I can. That includes you guys, you know, like when I'm with the other journalists, I'm listening to what they saw at training and what everyone else is seeing and talking about. So that part, being on the ground, I get that advantage. We get to talk to the people that we get to see. So if we run into the players, I get to ask them questions.

I talk to the other journalists, like the Panamanian journalists before the game against the U.S., asking them how they're feeling, what the media is saying around that camp, around the Panamanian team, around how they view the U.S. team. So that has been interesting, and you can't really do that in the same way when you're not on-site. So I do that before and then on gameday, but it's knowing the lineups, knowing the changes that are being made, it's having basically a hit for any situation that can arise, the different players I try to prepare as much as possible, almost to an extreme where I typically don't use really anything that I have prepared.

I'm sure that other people have that same problem, but I try to be ready for anything that could happen. I prepare for questions like at halftime, postgame, potential questions, like what if this is a situation? What if this is a scenario? Like where could I go with these questions? So that all happens on game day. On game day. I don't like any distractions. Like anybody talking to me or wanting to have coffee with me or have breakfast with me, I get kind of like, "I need to go."

You saw this when we were in El Salvador, you guys were all having breakfast and I'm like, "I have to go now." And you guys are like, "What?" I'm like, "I need to go prepare." You guys are like, "We have like five hours till we leave." I'm like, "I know, I have to go, I have to go." [laughs] So I'm pretty crazy about that, and I understand the privilege it is to be on the field, to be at these games. Not everybody gets to do them, and I'm lucky that CBS sends me. Nothing better than being on the field.

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Grant Wahl:

I try to get my Jenny Chiu interactions in before gameday.

Jenny Chiu:

Yes! [laughs] Anyone who knows me, knows this. Because I get into like a different mindset of I'm such an anxious mess, all I care about is making sure that we have a good broadcast, we get the information that I want to transmit out there. And anything else is a distraction. Like even my parents calling me on game day, I'm like, "Yeah, I have to go." They're like, "What? Why?" Like, "I'm in my room, but I have to study." I just have to look over the last few bits, I don't want to miss anything. So yeah, I need to get better about that balance there, but my gamedays are not the best time to talk to me at all.

Grant Wahl:

So I thought you were tough but fair on Gregg Berhalter, the U.S. coach, in your reporting after the U.S. loss in Panama, and you cited his own quote about the U.S. getting its ass kicked, Gregg's words, if it took Panama lightly, and then you noted that he made seven changes and in doing so took Panama lightly. How did that report come together for you in that moment?

Jenny Chiu:

So in all of the other games I hadn't had a post-game analysis because of the connectivity problems, the safety problems, or safety issues potentially. That was the first time that we were staying, so I had a hit. And after my interview they were like, "Okay, we're going to come to you at this time." And I was like, "Okay, I need to have something ready." And as I was sitting during the game, that kept ringing in my head, that Gregg had said this. And so I'm sitting there and that's all that keeps coming up in my head. And so then I was like, "Okay, where did I see this? Like, let me pull it up." Because I have a little bit of time before they come to me.

So I pulled it up and I was like, "I'm right, this did happen. I didn't make this up. Like this definitely happened." So I wrote it out. And when we saw the lineups, I was a bit confused. I think that many people that follow the national team were confused about the lineup when it happened. And I felt that that was a bit odd to put out that lineup. You know, I think that's what everyone felt. So everybody felt the same way, and for me I needed to quote it. I thought that it was important that this was something that came to my head. I have to have an analysis. And what else can I tell you besides that the U.S. didn't play well? The lineups, like that's just what comes to my head. And to be honest, I think it got taken pretty far, farther than I thought it would.

I think it was just like my natural instinct was, this was the quote, and then this is what the actions were, and this is the result. That was just an instinctual thing. But I don't want it to be like a super negative, like I'm obviously rooting for the U.S., rooting for the team to do well. I just, that was what happened.

Grant Wahl:

I mean, I'll say this, you were doing your job, you were doing it well. And there was no personal animus part of it. It was an analysis of what the coach had said, and then the decisions he had made leading into that Panama game with the seven changes. And I also know that in that situation, I don't think you had access to the postgame press conferences or anything like that, so you had to go on air with something, and you came on with stuff that your audience responded to in a supportive, positive way. Obviously, it was after a U.S. loss, the one loss that the U.S. has had in these six qualifiers so far.

I guess the question I would have for you is, the culture of soccer that you have grown up in and developed in and has formed you, that kind of pointed analysis is part of it, right? And can you share with the listeners what that influence is on you over the years?

Jenny Chiu:

Right. I think that that's why I was so taken aback by everybody's reaction to it. As much as it was positive towards me and I saw a lot of support, it was not out of the ordinary because of what I grew up watching. You know, I grew up watching the Mexican national team, and you can win 3-0 and the media is still going to crush you for certain decisions you made, the way that this person played, the way that that person played. It's just never good enough. And so for me, that was totally normal and not a hit on Gregg, a hit on the team, like that was just my analysis of the game. So yeah, I don't know, if you put that into context, anybody that has followed the Mexican national team and the media understands that that's just normal for that.

Grant Wahl:

I mean like that's what I'm accustomed to over the years. And obviously every culture has its own traditions and stuff, but this is what you grew up in. I want to get you talking about sort of this as well, because you played in this culture. Could you explain to listeners sort of your growing up in the El Paso area, in having influences from U.S. and Mexican soccer, and also choosing to play for the Mexican national team?

Jenny Chiu:

Yeah. I grew up playing soccer, or playing all sports and then eventually finding that I was pretty okay at soccer, so we should put all our energy and eggs into that basket. Went full throttle into that, and the community that I grew up in is right on the border of Texas and Mexico, so really easy to go back and forth. So I also played on the other side of the border. So I played on state, regional and nationals with the women's team since I was eight, I think, in Mexico. So from that I got scouted with the Mexican national team, started to go into camps with them when I was 12. And then the U.S. also scouted me, so I went into those ID camps for the United States at the same time.

And, I don't know, I obviously played in America and in Mexico simultaneously. You know, in America, I played with boys teams based on the quality of soccer and what my dreams were, where my dad wanted me to play with people that were always going to be better than me, bigger than me, and it was going to help me be a better player. So I did, I played with an all boys team, I was the only girl in my league, and on the Mexican side I would play with girls. So, that took up a lot of my time. Eventually I end up playing for Mexico, being told that the team's going to be built around me and captaining for Mexico.

And then I get a really bad back injury, which is just tragic and trash. And then you figure out what life is after that. You know, I still go to UNC after taking a year off of soccer, and I'm not the same player anymore, but I have all of these experiences. And I get to say that I played for Mexico, I played for UNC, and my soccer career didn't end up perfect or anything that I would love to talk about, but I got what I needed out of it to know what it is to be on a team, to be on a national team. Like all of those things have helped me so much in what I now do in being a reporter.

You know, I know what it's like to be traveling for months at a time, to be in concentración, which is the camp that, you know, we don't have internet access. We don't talk to anyone, no one's let in and out. All you're there to do is to focus on a World Cup and making sure that you guys are doing the best things.

Grant Wahl:

And you played in an Under-20 World Cup for Mexico, right?

Jenny Chiu:

U17 and U20, yeah.

Grant Wahl:

Played at University of North Carolina under Anson Dorrance. Would you be okay sharing sort of the fun story of how you and I met? And where and why?

Jenny Chiu:

Absolutely. I always want to share this because I think it goes to show how you should probably introduce yourself to people. So I was interning at the Rio Olympics with my journalism program at UNC, and we're staying in a hotel and I obviously follow soccer, care about it. I know who Grant Wahl is, and I saw him in our hotel and I told my friend who was a track runner at UNC. I was like, "Hey, that's a huge soccer writer. He's like sitting right over there, oh my gosh." And she was like, "Go introduce yourself." And I was like, "Absolutely not. What are you talking about? I'm going to waste his time, no." And she just starts laughing, stands up and goes to sit at his table and says, you know, "Hello, I'm Kendra," my friend's name is Kendra Douglas, "I'm Kendra. My friend plays for UNC and she's a big fan of yours." And I'm like sitting there like dying of embarrassment. I'm like, oh my God, this man is probably busy. Like, what are you doing?

And finally, they like, you know, both tell me to come over. And I sit down and I say hello and we all get to know each other. But I was mortified that she did that. And it ended up being probably one of the best things ever, because I then got to shadow you at all these games, almost protected me because taking the journalist bus wasn't that safe, they got like hit by rocks and different things at the time, because there was problems with Brazil hosting. But yeah, I learned a lot and gained a good friendship and we've been in contact ever since. And now we're coworkers, how crazy.

Grant Wahl:

It is pretty crazy, because when I joined CBS and you tossed to me for like, I think my first CBS hit, it was kind of neat. I also really enjoyed how I was like a third-person description in the story you just told. [laughs]

Jenny Chiu:

Oh, I did didn't I?

Grant Wahl:

I was he, I'm kind of like, wait, that was you, me. But yeah, no, it's really cool. I mean, like, you never know who you're going to meet when things are going on at big events like that. I actually remember this because I was having breakfast with Alex Wolff, the terrific former writer for Sports Illustrated, and your friend Kendra Douglas came over and introduced us. And the fact that it's such a small world, I'm going to ask you in a second about advice you have for people starting out who want to do what you do. But one lesson for me is it's a small freaking world, and you never know who you might meet. Even at a really young age, you still had like a year left at the University of North Carolina, who you're going to be interacting with years down the road.

You know, for my experience in my career, I was a freshman in college at Princeton and I was covering for the school newspaper a soccer team that was coached by Bob Bradley, and Jesse Marsch was a player. And I'm still interviewing those two guys so many years later. And I think that's actually a pretty useful career lesson. But I would also ask you, when young people ask you, and I realize you're still a young person, so don't take this the wrong way, when young people ask you, how do I get to do what you do? What sort of advice do you share?

Jenny Chiu:

I tell people to create content. Like that's how I got started, and I got seen by Orlando City, was I was creating my own content to my own vlog and I was meeting everyone. I think introducing yourself, that's something I learned with the experience with you. And then years down the road when I worked for the [Portland] Timbers, I introduced myself to everyone, the owner, I don't know what their titles are, but I would go and I'd make sure that they knew my name and make sure that I had made a good impression. And like you said, it's a small world. So if you are a good worker, people will know. So you don't get a job without word of mouth, like checking. My next employer at Orlando, like had checked with Portland. Like, what is this person like? How is she as a worker? And those things go a really long way. People see how you are, how you interact with people.

I think what's helped me the most and what I think that everyone should, I'm still trying to get it across to myself, but the way that I am successful is in being authentically me. People really liked my post Panama, I didn't really think about it, that was my natural reaction. I wasn't trying to think of a certain person that would appreciate or like this. And my gut reaction was this is what I've been thinking about, this is how I feel, done. And everyone's reaction was pretty positive out how I did, and I realized that the more and more I allow myself to be me and not think that I need to fit in this box of like, this is a broadcaster and this is what a woman in this position is supposed to say and supposed to do, I am more successful. So I think everyone has that, everyone has their authentic selves. Be you and it'll shine through and it'll be genuine and people will like it.

Grant Wahl:

You know, I really like the media group that travels and covers the U.S. men's national team on these World Cup qualifiers. You've gotten to know them, I've gotten to know them. You know, everyone's putting out some pretty serious effort to go to Central America or wherever and be on site at all of these games. But I would ask you this, do you notice that you're basically the only woman?

Jenny Chiu:

Of course. I notice it everywhere I go. I always notice that. And I think that's why it's so important to open doors to other women that want to do this. There's not that many of us. And when it is, when we do have women, we acknowledge that there's only a few women. So we think that it's like a competition, and that's not it. That's not it, it's like more, bring more women in because we have a different perspective. And I think we can do such a great job, but I always notice when I'm the only woman and it's very, very common. Like even at Champions League when it was COVID, not as many journalists got to get into these games, but I was typically the only female journalist.

So yeah, I mean, I love the group too. Like the people that are traveling with the U.S. team, have all been so welcoming to me, I'm obviously like the newest person in the group. All so welcoming, inviting me to stuff, making sure that I feel involved, and it's been really nice. I mean, I get along with the TUDN and The Athletic guys, I really appreciate them on this journey too. So, and I see you on the road with me and I have producers go with me, it's been good.

Grant Wahl:

I should also say occasionally we're seeing Meg Swanick, a writer who's another woman, who's covering the U.S. men's national team. So there are a couple of women at times, but not too many. I hope that changes over the years. I wanted to ask you about Ricardo Pepi, because he's obviously an emerging star with the U.S. men's national team, just 18 years old, scored three goals in World Cup qualifying. He is also, like you, from the El Paso area. Have you had a chance to connect with Ricardo Pepi, either recently in your coverage, or over the years, just being from the same area?

Jenny Chiu:

I've connected with his family and friends, and just kind of talked about like, I've talked to his dad quite a bit, talked about our community, and they know me because you know, the soccer community, just like the journalist soccer community, is very small and we definitely have some connections there. And yeah, I think the viewpoint is very similar to mine in terms of, to anybody that's a dual national, like the love for both countries and getting to kind of bond over that aspect and fully understand what it is to be from El Paso. When you're from El Paso, the border is there, but it's not really there, we cross back and forth consistently. My family has a fast pass, like a century card. You have to go through like this huge background check, but I can go in and out of Mexico in the U.S. so quickly. Like, it'll take me 10 minutes if I just want to go touch Ciudad Juárez and come back, there it is. Like, because I have this fast pass thing.

And if you're not from there, I understand how difficult it is to understand people's decisions in this. Like this dual national thing is obviously coming up more and more, and people are having conversations about it, but Ricardo Pepi is from El Paso. That soccer community, I feel so proud, you know, to just be from the same place as him and he's putting it on the map in the soccer sense. And maybe that means that more scouts and different opportunities will come to the kids of El Paso that play soccer there, because there is so much talent there that is yet to be unearthed.

Grant Wahl:

So I think I might know the answer to this question, but I don't know if our listeners do. So, you know, I followed your career, you're with the Portland Timbers for a while, you were with Orlando City, you did some work for Chelsea. And then CBS came along, and CBS has obviously made this huge impact going from zero to a hundred very quickly in the soccer space. They didn't do anything in soccer for a long time, then they got the Champions League rights and the NWSL and the U.S. World Cup qualifiers. In terms of the away games, they have the Mexico games, what was your big break with getting to CBS?

Jenny Chiu:

My understanding is that it's word of mouth. It's like people, you know, saying like, Hey, I need a reporter. And people saying, you know, Hey, Jenny Chiu's really good in this space, and then people looking into me. That was my understanding of how I came about. It was completely unexpected. When I got the gig, I had spoken to people in the interview process after they had sought me out and said, we have picked you as someone that we're interested in for this role, spoke to them. When I get the gig, I didn't expect to get it at all, even though the interview process went fine. I was like, oh yeah. I mean, I was honest, I was authentically me, and I think it's fine. That's how I felt after the interview. No pressure, because I don't expect to get this, but it was a good practice of an interview process.

When I got it, I remember exactly where I was. If you care.

Grant Wahl:

Yes!

Jenny Chiu:

I think I was like sick. I was like sick. So I was in bed. I think, I don't know why, I had missed something because I was sick that day. And I remember my agent was calling me. I was like, I'm going to skip this call. I don't feel well. And then I was like, oh, whatever. Finally, I answered the call, still laying down, like, yes, what's up? And he started telling me like, how are you? I'm like, yeah, I'm not feeling well, I'm fine, whatever. And then he goes, okay, so I just wanted to let you know, CBS wants to hire you for their coverage of Champions League as an o-nsite reporter, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, what? And I immediately sat up and I was like, what did you just say?

And he repeated himself, and I was like, is this a joke? And he was like, no, this is real. And I stood up off my bed, and I was like, what in the world? Are you serious right now? And I started crying. I just started crying. I was like, are you kidding me? And I didn't expect it at all. Like I'm so early in my career, this is network television, this is CBS that's making Champions League, the coverage that I had watched the past season and loved. I mean, that studio team, I think I had tweeted about how much I was enjoying the coverage. And they wanted me to be a part of the coverage that I thought was the best soccer coverage that I had seen in America and the most entertaining.

So I was mind-blown by that aspect. You know, it's not just, you know, signing for CBS, it's the show that I thought was so well-done. And I felt like, wow, like that's a new way of doing soccer television and they want me. And yeah, I mean, I was incredibly emotional. It's been a ride since. I just celebrated my one year since my debut.

Grant Wahl:

Congrats.

Jenny Chiu:

And got to travel so much. Thank you. Got to travel so much, and now I'm coworkers with incredible people I never thought I would be coworkers with, so it's really cool.

Grant Wahl:

I know you watch a lot out of soccer as well, so I'm going to throw this question at you. What are some of your favorite teams to watch?

Jenny Chiu:

Ooh, I follow Chelsea still. I'm not really working with them anymore, but I follow Chelsea, and Liverpool is outstanding. I got to say this, Grant, I have the text message to prove it. Before the Liverpool-Manchester United game, I asked somebody their score prediction. They said like 3-2 Man U. And they asked me mine, I said, 3-0  Liverpool. Obviously not the right prediction, but I wasn't off in the sense that Liverpool was going to dominate the game. So I just wanted to say that because I've been carrying that idea that I should be in the betting business.

Grant Wahl:

You might get enlisted, watch out.

Jenny Chiu:

But yeah, I mean, right now I'm just studying the national teams as much as I can to try to be ready for World Cup qualifiers. And I think what I've been told the most is to make sure that I am studying what I'm going to work on right now. There's so much that you could be watching. There's so much. Grant, when you think about our sport, I was just talking to somebody who has no idea of anything about soccer. There are so many different leagues in our sport that you have to know about to cover Champions League, for example, or a World Cup, for example. Like when you think about the NBA or NFL in our country, if you're covering that, all you're doing is focusing on NBA. All you're doing is focusing on NFL. But when you're covering Champions League, Europa League, all of these things, World Cup qualifiers, you have to follow so many different leagues, it's crazy. Is there anything else that's like that?

Grant Wahl:

Not really, there's nothing as fragmented as soccer is. And you and I have talked about this for years, right? Just in terms of you can't fake having seen the teams. And this happens a fair amount, I've noticed this over the years with discussion of Champions League, which is the Continental teams. So the non-British teams on the Continent often don't get seen as much by English-language broadcasters. And you can kind of tell that, you know, I remember when Lyon got to the semis of Champions League a couple years ago and beat Man City. You know, you can kind of tell if someone hasn't really seen Lyon much that season. And at the same time, you can also tell if they have.

And so in the U.S., we get everything. So you can see Lyon play in the French League in the U.S.. And I know you've spent time doing that. So I think there's a real benefit to taking advantage of the ability we have in the U.S. to see basically every league at this point. But you still have to put in the time because there so much out there. And I think it's really cool that you're doing it.

Jenny Chiu:

Thank you. I definitely got that from you too. Like I had asked you early on, I'm new to this. I always am like, I don't know what the right way to do this is, tell me what to do here. And that was a big thing. You had mentioned, like the smaller teams that people are not going to know that much about, like the non-English sides, put your focus there. Non top-five leagues probably. And I was like, okay.

Grant Wahl:

You know, and then I know you'll still watch the English teams. So you're fine on that side as well. But yeah, it's definitely a challenge just to be on top of everything there. I know you've done some storytelling, your story on the Roldán brothers, I thought was really good. Is that an aspect of things that you're enjoying, starting to do more of?

Jenny Chiu:

I think that's where my passion is. Like the telling stories aspect, you know, when I was the reporter for Orlando, I got to do and play a huge part in the features aspect. And I got to produce a bunch of these things, and I recognize that, you know, I do what I do, one, because I love soccer, but two, because of the human aspect, that's what I care about. If you meet me as a human, which you know me as a human, the human aspect is what matters to me. So getting to tell the human story, the story beyond the game, beyond the field, is what I think I'm passionate about.

Grant Wahl:

Just really impressed with everything you've done and really excited to actually have you on my podcast. It's probably taken too long to get to this point, but thank you so much for coming on the show. Jenny Chiu is doing terrific work for CBS Sports. You can see her in CBS's coverage of the U.S. men's national World Cup qualifiers, in the men's UEFA Champions League among other things. Jenny, thanks so much for coming on the show.

Jenny Chiu:

Thanks for finally having me. I was waiting for the call-up. [laughs]