The Interview: ESPN's Sebastian Salazar
The Fútbol Américas Co-Host on USMNT-Mexico and His Path in the Media Business
One of the most fun experiences I’ve ever had on a reporting trip came during the 2016 Summer Olympics, when Sebastian Salazar and Arlo White joined me and a few other people in Belo Horizonte, Brazil (where we were covering the USWNT) to attend a Cruzeiro Brazilian league game at the same stadium where the USMNT famously beat England 1-0 in the 1950 World Cup. That was Sebi’s first national gig, with NBC Sports, and it came right before he joined ESPN.
It was clear that Sebi was a major talent on a national scale, and he has only continued that rise over the last few years. He and I caught up ahead of Friday’s big USMNT-Mexico World Cup qualifier, which he’ll be broadcasting for ESPN. Really enjoyed this conversation!
Grant Wahl:
Our guest now is my friend Sebastian Salazar of ESPN. He's the co-host with Hérculez Gómez of the excellent show Fútbol Américas, which you can see on ESPN+. Sebi also appears on ESPN FC and does play-by play with Julie Foudy on ESPN's U.S. women's national team games, among other things. Sebi, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming on the show.
Sebastian Salazar:
Hey, thanks for having me on. I've listened to the show for a while. So as I was telling you before, it's always cool to appear on a show that you've listened to.
Grant Wahl:
I love it that we actually have listeners, I just get excited about this, who then come on as interview guests. So we're recording this on Friday night, it's coming out Monday, which means it's USA-Mexico week in World Cup qualifying. And for you, as someone who pays close attention to soccer on both sides of the border, what does this week mean to you?
Sebastian Salazar:
Well, I can kind of give you the personal side of it first. I'm very much split. My dad is from upstate New York, kind of rural western upstate New York, and my mom is from Mexico City. So even our household is very much divided. And my dad is a fan of the U.S,.no doubt about it. He came to soccer late, but he's a huge fan of the game. And the U.S. is his team. My mom taught me the game, and she loves Mexico and she doesn't like their rivals. The U.S. is one of their rivals. So it's a strange week on a personal level, because you feel a lot of conflicting emotions. And I think that's kind of the center of the rivalry.
In terms of where the rivalry is now, I just think it's an amazing kind of intersection. Mexico is kind of really honest about it, enjoying a great generation, but it's probably, if not at their peak, kind of coming off it. And what is the U.S. team? The U.S .is this kind of explosion of potential. And so you're kind of waiting for these two lines to cross and I feel like on both sides of the border, we're kind of always wondering how close we are to that moment.
Grant Wahl:
Yeah. It's just a lot going on. What are you set to be doing for ESPN on Friday for the USA-Mexico broadcast?
Sebastian Salazar:
So we'll have pre-game, halftime, post-game coverage, all that surrounding the match on ESPN2 as well as on ESPN+, they're going to simulcast it. And we'll have Jermaine Jones and Kasey Keller, the same guys that we had for the games in Columbus and Austin, it's been great working with them. We're kind of a new team starting to get to know each other, but you get those two guys over dinner and you realize they have stories for days. So my only job is to try and bring those out of them. And, I think, as we hang out more, it's going to be better and better.
I think the pre-game show is going to have a lot of elements like it always does. We're bouncing up to the booth, we're using Sam Borden, who's been our sideline reporter throughout these games. He's got his more E:60 kind of storytelling side of things. And he's going to dive into some interesting topics and people there. So I think from those aspects, we're going to try to hit it from all angles. And we have an hour on the digital side, which is a real blessing. You need space for games like this. You need pre-game space. And the truth is, you work for TV stations, you know how hard it is to get on what they call linear TV. And so they can get you the game and about 10 or 15 minutes pre-game, but you can't do U.S.-Mexico justice in 10 or 15 minutes pre-game, you need a proper hour.
So we'll go an hour before. We're probably going to go hours after. Fútbol Américas is going to do a special live edition right after the game as well. So it's going to be a lot of fun. Especially in the Fútbol Américas show, we're going to be pulling people from the Deportes side. So you're really going to get in that moment, I think, a cool slice of where really both fandoms are at.
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Grant Wahl:
I think it's really cool how your show does give us that. It's a real look at both sides on sort of a 50-50 way, which I really appreciate to get that full context on things. I do want to ask you about the two coaches. If you're Mexico coach Tata Martino, what are you thinking about this game? And what if you're U.S. coach Gregg Berhalter? But I want to start with Tata. If you're Tata, what are you thinking about this game?
Sebastian Salazar:
Are my stars going to show up? Really. Because that's been the question with Mexico, is Chucky Lozano going to be the star player that we've seen him be really at the CONCACAF level, right, that elite difference maker. And the only name that I can think of in that category right now is Alphonso Davies. But can Chucky Lozano be that type of player? Can Raúl Jiménez be what he was pre-injury? He started to get some of those goals. He's beginning to score in the Premier League, to convert that to the national team in a big significant moment against the United States. And the other real serious concern is his back line. I mean, his center back position is kind of a rotating shop right now. And I think until that gets settled, there's real serious concerns for Mexico there.
The other point that is kind of obvious, we talk again about this young team perhaps overtaking an older team is when you look at the United States, they're scary. They're scary fast. They're scary physical from a Mexican perspective, at least. And so I think, the right combination in that midfield trio, which I mean, you tell me a coach that isn't desperate to figure that out, right? Unless it’s [Carlo] Ancelotti of Madrid, who kind of knows he has to be always going to be provided health, if you figure the right three out, man, you figured out a big part of your 4-3-3. He's got to get younger there. He's got to get leggier there. Because some of the guys like Andrés Guardado are just starting to show that they're just a little too old for the speed of the international game.
So I think there's a lot of concerns for the Mexico side. Yeah, you sit first in CONCACAF and that maybe allows you to tinker a little bit, to take some chances and get some answers in big games like this, which you can't really replicate elsewhere. But I do think from a Mexican perspective, there are some warts under what looks like a pretty good qualifying run.
Grant Wahl:
So what if you're Gregg Berhalter? What are you thinking about from your perspective?
Sebastian Salazar:
Yeah. Well, the No. 9 position, man, right? It's a position we talk about on Fútbol Américas all the time. Why now with Herc, right? You're always going to bring up like top fives and this and that. But I think that's been one of the running themes on the show is the top five at that position for the U.S. And I'm sure if you go back to the first one, I'm sure he's got Jozy Altidore somewhere in there, like No. 2 or 3. And you can just see how much change there's been since, what, we started the show not even a year ago, seven, eight months ago. So that position, really, is not just unanswered, but he's tried so many different questions at it like beyond [Ricardo] Pepi.
And so I think, when you see Pepi in there for now, you think, "Great, listen, this kid's amazing, and we hope the run for him continues. But you’ve got to have other options. So I'm thinking that's a big concern for him. What you're going to get out of your star guys too? Is Weston McKennie going to give you some of those goals that he's been scoring for Juventus? We talked about it on the show.
To me, if you're Mexico, you're worried about him. He's a big-game player. He's a set-piece player. Set pieces for Mexico are really a nightmare, especially against the United States. For every Mexico fan, they're a hold-your-breath moment. So Weston McKennie is a scary player for you. And then Christian Pulisic, who in other games against Mexico and honestly for this U.S. team, has been very quiet. What are you going to get from him over 90 minutes? 60 minutes? 30 minutes? Whatever you ask of him in that Mexico game, which is another big question for Gregg Berhalter. What's the actual workload you can ask of Christian Pulisic after what we've seen is now kind of a cycle of him going to the national team, getting hurt, missing time with Chelsea.
Grant Wahl:
So when it comes to your show, Fútbol Américas, is it accurate to say that you're trying to do something on the show that we see a lot more of in Mexican media than the U.S. soccer media, which is to say, having polémica, debates about the sport here?
Sebastian Salazar:
Yeah. So first of all, I wouldn't say it's probably unique to Mexican soccer, right? I think you see that in a lot of different places.
Grant Wahl:
Sure.
Sebastian Salazar:
Herc is Mexican American, I'm Mexican American, most of our production team is Mexican American, Latino. so they watch ESPN Deportes. We see the content that comes out of Argentina, which is where we produce a lot of our content. But yes, the bulk of it, Mexico City, shows like Fútbol Picante, those are kind of institutions in Mexican soccer. They set the narrative for what everybody is talking about, what's in the papers. And I'll be honest, that's a show that I've idolized since I was a kid. Since it launched, not a kid, when I'm a much younger adult when it launched and being like, "Wow, this is something that I'm going to watch every night."
And then, to have some of those ideas and try and bring that into an English-speaking setting and talking about the things that folks north of the border care about, right? Like doing it towards MLS and doing it with Liga MX, but in English, national teams as well, the women's national team. I think it's a good experiment, right? We're doing something that is maybe different and seeing if there's a market for it. But I think it's also an honest clash of cultures. This is something that as more and more people from Mexico and of Mexican descent end up in the United States, things are going to come with us and come with our parents, and I think there's going to be an influence.
And I hope that this is one of those influences. And this is one that is for the better and, really, enjoyment of the people in this space.
Grant Wahl:
So what has some of the response been from some of the establishment American soccer organizations, MLS, U.S. Soccer, groups like that, to some of the criticism that does come up on your show?
Sebastian Salazar:
Yeah, no, I think, we haven't had that big blow-up moment yet. I think Herc and I, when we started the show, and I'm sure you've had these interactions as well. We're kind of like, "All right, when's that coming? Because we're going to be right on that line over and over and over again," and we knew what we wanted to talk about. We knew that there would be times when we kind of wanted to focus on things that maybe organizations would prefer ESPN not focus on. I think that's really the power of the show is the platform of ESPN, right?
I mean, I'd love to think that it's the things that we do that are unique and different. But having that platform is really what serves the show. And so in some ways, when you say something on the show, you know it's going to get out, right? You know people are going to hear it. And it's always interesting, right? Because you can tell people aren't listening to the podcast or watching the show live, it's always when the tweet goes out. I know you know that. It's when you get that email and when you get that phone call.
I think we definitely have opened some good conversations. I've had people texting me like, "Hey, I disagree with this. What was this supposed to mean? What was that?" And, "Hey, you’ve got to clarify what you say," or "You have to stand by what you say," and at least, I won’t speak for Herc, I know he does a lot of work for the show. We put a lot of work into what we're covering and what we're saying. We're not going to go out there and be irresponsible. We might go out there, shoot from the hip, but we're not going to shoot from the hip irresponsibly, if it can be done. So we try to be as prepared as we possibly can be. And so I think in that way, while some of the criticisms might feel stinging, I feel like there's always substance to it.
And as long as there's substance, those conversations, I think, back and forth, can be had. The conversations that are the ones that I'm not involved in, right. And I don't know if you've ever gone through this, when they go straight to your bosses. And those are when you're like, "Okay, now I know I really did something wrong." And if they've gone to the bosses yet, we haven't heard about it, so we'll leave it there.
Grant Wahl:
It's funny because back when I was in Sports Illustrated and I co-hosted a video show with Luis Miguel Echegaray, who's now with CBS.
Sebastian Salazar:
Killing it.
Grant Wahl:
We enjoyed it. And we had an issue though sometimes finding stuff that we disagreed on. Because we wanted to create some debate on the show, but then even the stuff that was sort of occasionally a critical viewpoint towards something, we kind of still agreed. How do you and Herc come up with what you're going to talk about on the show? Do you go out of your way to find some things that you and he disagree about?
Sebastian Salazar:
Well, we follow each other on Twitter. So I think that's like a perfect place to start, right? You tweet something out, you immediately disagree with it, instead of quote-tweeting it, you put it in the ... We have a Whatsapp chain and hashtag save it for the show. And then, boom, it's a topic on Monday.
Let me speak about on the first point is that the chemistry with me and Herc, I think, is unique. We've worked together on so many other things. I was talking about this the other day with somebody. We're just about the same age, very similar backgrounds, in some regards very similar upbringings, especially when it came to soccer and club soccer, but extremely different viewpoints and also real-world experiences being a teenager where he was versus where I was. And so we're predisposed to care about the same things, but also predisposed to come at them from totally different angles.
And so I think, to the other point is like, what are we picking? I think any topic you can make a good debate if you really invest yourself in the point. There are things that if I see something that I'm very hot about, I'll put it in the WhatsApp chain like, "I can't believe this." And if Herc bites, Beto or Rafa, our producers, know, bingo, okay, A block, B block. And he does the same to me. And sometimes he'll do it on Twitter, and you can almost see him boring me out sometimes. And I'm like, "Dude, save it for the show." But I think so much of it comes from being on top of the topics, right, knowing what's coming. And then just being like, what are, A, people talking about? What do people care about? And then how can we have a good conversation around that?
And if that means debate, great, if that means hammering one side, great. If that means championing one side, great. But how can we kind of make it interesting in that way? And if we can't make it interesting, then we don't really put it in the show.
Grant Wahl:
Another aspect of opinions when you're putting opinions out there, whether you're a written columnist or a TV opinion person, this comes up from time to time, which is the question of do you ever put an opinion out that you don't necessarily believe but you think in a sort of like, I'm a good lawyer perspective, and I can put out something that I don't even agree with that's effective. Do you ever consider that? Do you ever do it?
Sebastian Salazar:
Yeah. So what I would say is I do it to a point, right, like, there'll never be a topic that I'm not invested in that I argue on. And I think I'll say it on the show. I'll be like, "Hey, to play devil's advocate," or "If I were to make an argument against you, this is how I would do it." When I do want to preface it. There's never anything I say that I don't believe or haven't done research on to make a few points to say, "Okay, this is why I believe this." And like I said, the topics go through a pretty sturdy vetting process and you have to be interested in them and passionate about them, which means you're knowledgeable about them, which means, whatever your take is, even if it's wrong, even if it's just totally wrong. And I've had some of those, I'll hold my hands up, it comes from a place you can defend. And I think that's the point, right? Can you defend it not seriously, but honestly? And I think, I'll always say, "Yeah, I think I can defend whatever I say honestly, without being disingenuous."
Grant Wahl:
That makes sense. So you're obviously a very versatile guy in what you do for ESPN. When you host ESPN FC, which is a different show from Fútbol Américas, how different is that for you?
Sebastian Salazar:
Totally different. Yeah. I mean, one just the content matter, the subjects that we're talking about are totally different. ESPN FC has very much the whole soccer lane, it’s so European, versus what we do which is very intentionally almost stay in our lane, but really spend time in it, right? If we do Champions League, there's got to be, "Ajax advanced with Edson [Álvarez]." There's got to be a tie to our region. We're not going to talk about PSG, City and [Lionel] Messi versus whatever.
So FC gives you those huge topics to read, even so basic, like on Messi or [Cristiano] Ronaldo. Those things to kind of chew on, how great was Messi today? And those conversations are super fun to be a part of as well. For me, if I'm being honest, the Messi versus Ronaldo, I think, is anybody. Everybody can feel that in their gut.
I didn't grow up with European football first. I grew up watching Liga MX on Univision. I mean, my mom introduced me to the game. I didn't know about Europe until later. I mean, I remember running home on ESPN and taping Dutch league games on Tuesday afternoons after school, because that was the soccer you'd get. But I didn't grow up like a huge diehard of the European game. So to me, when I host that show, I think in some ways it's easier because I'm really almost learning there too. I'm teeing up the guys like, "Hey, tell me this, tell me that." I really lean on their expertise. And the cast there is such an amazing compilation of resumes.
And so you add all those guys together and their crazy personalities and the freedom that they've been given, because ESPN FC is really what it is because of how it's produced, right, how it's run. They used to put those guys on a freaking couch and just have them go. Now, they put them behind a desk at least like we’re somewhat more professional now. But we were on a couch just having fun, shooting the breeze. And I think born of that show, you had kind of a little bit more edgy, debate-y kind of back and forth. And I think, really, if we're being honest, Fútbol Américas is born out and modeled after a lot of things. But it's really very much, spinoff might not be the right word, but something like that of ESPN FC.
Because our attitudes and our viewpoints and our willingness to kind of go at things, I think, is very similar to FC. Where like on ESPN FC, if Manchester United has a bad day, it’s kind of like a good day for the show, right? It's a day where we can really sink our teeth in. And I think we definitely take that approach towards our stuff. Hey, if it's a good day, we can have a great show. But if it's a bad day, we can have a great show, too.
Grant Wahl:
I find it fascinating that you say your mother, who was born in Mexico City, got you into the game of soccer. And I don't know if that's necessarily the most common thing or what people might have expected? What was that story?
Sebastian Salazar:
So my dad, I mentioned, he grew up in western New York in the '50s and '60s, he was born in 1949. So soccer wasn't a part of his life, really, until he met my mom. And my mom grew up in Mexico City, again, in the '50s and '60s where girls were not encouraged to play, certainly not after adolescence. But she played on the streets, skinning her knees, covering it up with her skirts, until she was 11 or 12 and loved the game. And really beyond playing, she's a huge fan. My mom watches more soccer than I do, and I do it professionally. She really watches a ton of the games. Her grandfather took her to Club América games before Azteca was built when they used to play where Pumas play now, the Ciudad Universitaria down there in Mexico City.
And so she really is the person that knew the game, loved the game, big Club América fan, big Mexico national team fan, which of course she really connected with more and more as she was here. Once you get here and the national team becomes a symbol of the place you've left, I think it was like a huge thing for her. And she always exposed me to the game. She was the one that really put it on TV, made it a culture around the house. And then beyond that, Mexico at the 1994 World Cup was, for me, seeing that with my mom was a really formative kind of core memory experience.
That was really kind of what turned me from an American kid that was into all of the sports equally, I loved everything. I was a huge Bills fan in the NFL and Lakers in the NBA and Dodgers in baseball. After the '94 World Cup, I didn't really care about anything else. And so she really did kind of instill the love of the game for me. And my dad then started to love it too. And he became my coach, but it was always Mom that really knew the game and was the one that was really promoting it beyond like, go play it. Like, let's talk about it. Let's live it. These are the teams that we like. My dad didn't have any of that. There was nothing like that in his day.
Grant Wahl:
And what are your parents' names?
Sebastian Salazar:
Dan and Milagros. Dan and Milagros. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's such an interesting combination of two folks. But they met in pharmacy school, actually, at University of Southern California, and the rest is history.
Grant Wahl:
Nice. And what's sort of your path through your interest in soccer and then turning that into a career in soccer media?
Sebastian Salazar:
I mean, just soccer rat, played on all the club teams, played on the high school team, loved the game, loved playing it as much as I could as a kid. I had some pretty big dreams when I was 13, 14, 15. I was like, "I want to play. I want to play." And then I think, probably a few years later realized, "Hey, it probably wasn't going to happen, maybe wrong place, wrong time, whatever you might think." But the U.S. in like the late '90s, early 2000s, you didn't look and be like, "Oh, hey, I want to be an MLS player on $12,000 a year." And beyond the questions of whether you were actually going to be good enough to get one of the few jobs, was it worth it?
Sebastian Salazar:
So I think, I always thought like, well, what's the next best thing if you can't be an athlete, right? If you can't be in pro sports, what's the next best thing? And I, for whatever reason, my teenage mind landed on sports broadcasting, kind of like that term. And I latched on to it. I studied. My whole college choice, instead of playing D1 soccer, I went to a D3 school that had a student run radio station, student run TV station that no students were running. So the dean, when I got there was like, "Hey, you can do whatever you want." And I did like, as soon as I got there, I was calling games, hosting shows, and just kind of did it, did it, did it and got into really, really small-market television.
First job out of college was in the middle of nowhere in Georgia, then in the middle of nowhere in Virginia. And then you're on the ladder at that point and you kind of dup, dup, dup, dup, dup. And after one or two dup, dups, suddenly, you're kind of at ESPN. You feel really lucky, first of all, and proud to have made it to ESPN. But also it's very much, for me, a pinch-me moment, because the sports broadcasting thing was really like a childhood dream in that way. I remember when we got cable and ESPN arrived, it was like, "Oh, my god, this is a thing that you can do and it's so cool." And so to be part of it now, it's really neat. It's really neat. As cheesy as that sounds.
Grant Wahl:
No, it's a great story. And how did you come about being Julie Foudy's partner for the U.S. women's national team broadcasts? Because I really enjoy the chemistry you have with her. At various times over the last couple of years, you've called games, but you've also gotten into some pretty interesting debates. You've covered, basically, the real-time resignation of [former U.S. Soccer president] Carlos Cordero last year on a game broadcast.
Sebastian Salazar:
The night before COVID. The night before COVID that was.
Grant Wahl:
Yes. Yes. How did that come together? That combo of you and Foudy?
Sebastian Salazar:
We were just talking about my mom there. It's like, I really truly, I owe so much of my career to the women's game. I mean, I have to say that. My mom not only taught me the game. The first team I ever coached was my mom's over-30 team. So the first time I ever thought about soccer from an overhead perspective was that. And the first time I ever got to be on air at a regional sports network level was a Washington Freedom game in 2009, as a sideline reporter.
When you've worked on local TV, to make the jump to a regional sports network, that's a big deal or it was back then. It was to me. And so I'd always kind of been from then on and being in DC, Montgomery County, I'm right there where the Spirit are now, I'd always just kind of had an interest. We had always kind of gone to games, we'd always kind of followed the Freedom. And then when they left, the DC United women, they had a team and we knew some of the players from mom's friends, their daughters and stuff. So I was always kind of following the women's game or what was left of it and the national team. And I think, the opportunity at NBC in 2016, where I think the first time we hung out was dinner in Brazil, right, at the Rio Olympics.
That was the first time that anybody had seen me at an international level. And that was covering the women's team. So I think when I got to ESPN, it was really kind of off the shine of that Olympics, if that makes sense. And so I think it was very obvious that I would do something with the national team. I think at the time, Ian [Darke] was calling the games. And then, I think, it really just boiled down to Ian had too much stuff going on. And the cross-Atlantic travel was too much. And they were like, "Oh, Sebastian's around, let him do it." And I think the truth about me is like I'm not as good of a play-by-play guy as Ian Darke. I'm never going to be.
But I really loved and lived the women's game for a while. And I think the first thing that fans liked about me was just that I would talk about where the players played club. And to me that was so natural, because that's how you broadcast the game. But for me, I knew it, because I’d been following Houston Dash games in 2014. So I knew all these players and I know where they've been and some of their stories, and I just did it as I would have done any broadcast. I think I just happened to be armed differently than most other people who did it. And when you're working with Julie, you kind of can't go wrong. You’ve got literally the person that wrote the book kind of metaphorically.
So you just let her see what she's seen from a soccer perspective. And then from some of these other conversations, fortunately or unfortunately they're happening right now in and around women's soccer. And if you try to host a national team broadcast and not talk about it, that's disingenuous to the ... I'm trying not to ever be like, "Oh, I'm too serious of a journalist," because that's maybe not what I do. And I don't want to be held to that standard. But come on, we’ve got to talk about what's happening around the women's game as well. Because all that stuff impacts the growth, which then creates more games to talk about.
But if we don't talk about that stuff, then the growth, I fear, will happen what's happened for the last couple decades, which is always seemingly plateauing.
Grant Wahl:
I also think it's really important that when you cover and talk about women's soccer that if you're in the media, you don't just talk about it when something bad off the field is happening, as we've seen recently ... And we devoted a whole episode to having Meg Linehan and Molly Hensley-Clancy on to talk about the stories that they'd written that had been such a big part of all of this.
But if you're a media outlet, and the only time you’ve mentioned women's soccer is when that stuff happens, and you don't cover the league regularly, that really annoys me. I know it annoys a lot of women's soccer fans. But the fact of the matter is, you cover women's soccer, you are around it all the time. And then, what you've said publicly about all the stuff that's been happening with the NWSL lately, you've earned that credibility. And it's not like this is something we're enjoying, right? None of us are, talking about it, but it's important. And I do like the fact that it seems like more people in mainstream sports outlets cover women's soccer on a regular enough basis that I don't notice that.
Sebastian Salazar:
The outlets is one thing, right? Because you think about an outlet like ESPN and you're like, "Well, the only time they touch on women's soccer on SportsCenter is when something bad happens," and that may well be true. But they also covered it when the team is in the Olympics and other stuff like that.
But I really think it comes down to individuals, right? It's like as an individual, as a broadcaster, whether you're on PTI or Around the Horn or whatever the kind of the mainstream, those are just the ones that popped in my head, like the mainstream talk shows. If at those points, the only time you access women's soccer is to talk, that's when you need to think to yourself like, "Hey, wait a second, what are we doing here as we approach this sport? Is the only time we care about it when it's like a bombshell and we have to address it? Why don't we ever think about it in any other times?
I'll say this, and it's something that I'm very proud of and was very intentional with Fútbol Américas. When we sat down and we were like, "Well, what are we going to do with the show?" It's been an idea for a long time. But that idea has always kind of been like this until somebody said, "You’ve got to do it twice a week. And then, you have to really decide what you're going to do." And we had a discussion that was like, what is going to be our connection to the women's game? And it was a long discussion, but it kind of went from like, well, how much can we really do? Can we do it well? Can we do it honestly? To now, we’ve got to do it entirely. We’ve got to do it every show every week, all the time, there has to be a space for it, because you either do it or you don't.
And so we created that space. And that's why you'll see us like, yeah, we will talk about all the stuff that's happening and the ownership and the problems that the NWSL faces. But the last two weeks, we've also done two playoff previews. And we haven't talked about that other stuff. So we're cognizant of that too, even in our divide, like, "Hey, when we talk about the NWSL right now, is it 70-30? Is it 70 bad and 30 good?" And then like, "Okay, next week, it needs to be a little bit more the other way, because we don't want to get caught either. Even though we may have earned the right or we do talk about it every week. We don't want to get caught doing the next three shows 100% NWSL scandal while the playoffs are happening. You just can't lose sight of that.
Grant Wahl:
I want you to be honest about some of your goal calls for the U.S. women's national team. So my favorite one might have been, "Christen Press, what have you done?" Which I think ended up on a t- shirt made by the BreakingT company the day after that.
Sebastian Salazar:
I might have a few of those [laughs].
Grant Wahl:
And do you practice that call? Like, are you the night before, sitting in front of the mirror, doing different versions of that call? Or is that spontaneous?
Sebastian Salazar:
No. So it's interesting you asked me this question right now. I'm doing more and more play-by-play now. I mean, the reality is that play-by-play was kind of a smallest part of my pie chart, if you will, right? For a long time. I'm doing more and more of it now. So I'm thinking about it more now like how do I approach it? What do I do? How do I prepare? Whereas before I kind of prepared as I've always been told and just did it. So the truth about that call and every other call is they're spontaneous, they're random. And I know some people love that. And it got put on a shirt. Some people hated it. And that's the other part about being spontaneous and random is that some people really don't like it.
I think, the other thing about my goal calls is they're loud. I mean, they're loud. They're excited. They're excitable. So that's not everybody's preference in a soccer announcer. And I knew that going in and I know that now for sure from Twitter. But I think it's one of those where a lot of people have like a thing that they go to, right? And I think I have a few things that I go to. I do the long goal call, a la Andrés Cantor and so many before him. But I definitely do that a lot in English, which is different. But I think, really, you just kind of feel it in the moment. And if you go back and watch that Christen Press goal, it really was like, "Oh. What did you do?" Like, "Whoa, that's not a thing I see every day."
And maybe that's also the thing is like, Grant, I've literally watched soccer my entire life. So my entire life has been calling games like, "Oh, just missed it!" Doing all of that. And so I think maybe the better goal calls, the ones that the people, like the What have you done. That's something you would say sitting around the couch or some version of that and so maybe that's why it resonates with people. But the things that come out aren't always perfect either when you don't plan them. so maybe in a year you'll ask me and I'll say, "No, I do have some things." Because just the other day, I was thinking as I was going to do a Real Madrid game, and I was like, "Oh, man, should I have something ready for Benzema?"
And then of course, he didn't play so it didn’t matter. But I didn't. I didn't I didn't. Because I was like, "I don't want it in my head. I just wanted to feel natural." But I'm on the fence.
Grant Wahl:
My problem is that if I did play-by-play for a game I would say something like, "That's Benzema with an extortionate attempt on goal." And then I would get in trouble, and you don't want that.
Sebastian Salazar:
Yep.
Grant Wahl:
I do think your Christen Press goal call, for example, is of a piece though, with sort of the style that you and Herc have on Fútbol Américas, which is trying to bring a style that is very authentic, especially connected to your roots, into English language soccer broadcasting in the United States. I mean, that's fair to say, right?
Sebastian Salazar:
Yeah, no, totally. I mean, also in the same way that if you put any person from marginalized minority group into any setting, whatever you are, you're going to bring with you, right? If you put anybody in any setting, that's what's going to happen. So of course, my goal calls of my youth were long and loud. That's what Herc and I listened to growing up. Maybe the little catty back and forth is what we've watched growing up as well. Those are the things that are representative of the culture. But I also think that, I don't know, was there a time in the United States where tacos weren't popular? Because now, there's tacos everywhere.
And I think that at some point, there's so many of us here and so many of us that identify with that and watch that growing up. But if you look at the census data, and this is like a huge part of like, why we did the show, Latinos under the age of 12, I think, it's 88% are English dominant. So that's a huge and growing number that wants that content, that style, in this language. And so I'm really in some ways, I'm doing what I would do if you had a Mexican-American kid who grew up watching Univision and you put them in English, then this is what he would do. But I'm also I think kind of taking some of the stuff from that and introducing it to a market that hasn't had it before. Some people will like it, some people won't.
And then also including this whole new part of America, which is like, "Oh yeah, I'm Mexican American, but maybe I don't speak Spanish or my Spanish isn't that good," or whatever the case is. Or, "I grew up deep in the culture or not deep in the culture." I grew up in Washington DC, that's super different and mixed than somebody who grew up in El Paso. You can say Mexican American, but it can mean a million different things. So I think you take what you are, you put it out there, and in my case, probably the reason, Grant, I have this job I've had so many of these opportunities, is yeah, you always like to think you have talent or good work.
But demographically who am I? I'm Mexican American, I'm bilingual. Come on, let's be honest, ESPN wanted that for a reason. Why? Because they can read the census too. They're also looking for something when they give us these opportunities, I think, right? They don't put us out there to do an English accent. That would be weird on a lot of levels. But you have that. Other people do that and they do that amazing. But you put me there, like you probably want me to do what reflects my upbringing and my culture, whatever that means.
Grant Wahl:
We're winding down here with Sebastian Salazar, really appreciate you taking the time. There's a lot going on right now sort of shaping the future of soccer television in the United States. We're going to find out here, maybe by this time this runs we will have found out who's gotten the English Premier League rights for the next six years. ESPN got La Liga for eight years, both those deals are worth well more than a billion dollars. Where are we going with this? If you and I are talking in 5, 10, 15 years, what's soccer media and fandom in America going to be like?
Sebastian Salazar:
Well, I think, just like from kind of how I see it from the inside is you see each network kind of positioning itself. Or I hope they are. This would be great from a consumer's perspective, but as the home of international soccer or the home of club soccer or the home of big-event soccer. The beautiful thing about soccer is there's enough of it to go around where probably quite a few subscription over the top services, the thing that everybody is trying to sell right now, can be sold to kind of the basic soccer fan. I think the reality for the basic soccer fan moving forward is it ain't going to be on one place. We're going to have to go buy it in, hopefully, I would like it in like two or three pieces but maybe it'll be more. Depending on just how into everything you are.
As far as the growth of the game, I think, the huge events will still continue to get really big ratings and big numbers. I think that's always going to push more mainstream coverage. So as I think about it from an ESPN perspective, I do see soccer making more inroads in like the PTIs, the Around the Horns. Maybe that'll be because they start including folks that they've seen on like Fútbol Américas. I have this kind of long dream of guys who come from Deportes but speak English doing our show, but hey, they can also talk NFL and ta, ta, ta, ta. And then their next thing is that they're on Around the Horn.
And now we've kind of, taken over is the wrong word, but we've kind of shared this talent across the line that I think gives a whole another perspective and another dynamic. And so I think, eventually in the long term, you're going to see kind of the soccer fan be represented more on air. Think about it too, I hosted SportsCenter once. I'll give you a quick example. I know we're running out of time. I hosted SportsCenter for a week. I'm a soccer guy and now I was hosting ... so I wasn't the most like stand-on-the-desk aggressive. But I was like, "Hey, can we get soccer in the show," blah, blah, blah.
It was an international weekend and we had some big games on our air. We got a play on Friday in the bloopers and like the Not Top 10. That was what we got in. But when we didn't have hockey rights, we did have time for a four-minute hit from Vegas with two hockey guys who had been sent out there to cover it about a regular season winning streak in the NHL, which again we didn't have the rights to. And I think that's because the groups that produce that, that's their interest. Well, eventually, as more and more people who grew up interested in soccer get ESPN jobs, get industry jobs, become producers, become associate producers, coordinating producers, hosts, talent, anchors, you're going to see more and more of it in your mainstream.
Christian Pulisic is going to be a bigger and bigger name. But those kind of names are going to become like superstars in this country, which I think is super exciting for the game. As for the fandom, the fandom is so divided right now. But one thing that we do talk a lot about on the show is like what happens to the next generation of Mexican American kids? Which way do they go in terms of their fandom? Because for a long time it’s been very easy to pick Mexico, but it’s going to get harder and harder.
Great stuff Grant, Sebastian is one of my favorite studio hosts and a good Twitter follow. You've been putting out amazing content recently, keep it up!