The Interview: ESPN's John Sutcliffe
One of North America's Top Reporters Brings the Inside Scoop on the Mexican Men's National Team, a Potential Liga MX/MLS Merger, Whether He Thinks Tata Martino Will Coach Mexico at the World Cup, More
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ESPN’s John Sutcliffe is one of my favorite reporters around. You might have seen him talking to Aaron Rodgers or Bob Kraft or Odell Beckham Jr. on Monday Night Football, or you might have seen him talking about the Mexican men’s national soccer team, which he covers as well as anyone. It was great to catch up with my friend recently, and there’s lots of good stuff in our discussion.
Grant Wahl:
Our guest now is one of the top sports reporters in North America. John Sutcliffe works for ESPN, and you can find him on a bunch of different platforms, including the radio and Monday Night Football. He also works with the Mexican national team covering that and does work on golf as well. John, it's great to see you. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
John Sutcliffe:
Grant, un abrazo, amigo. It's a pleasure. It's always fun. You remind me of Landon Donovan yelling at me dos a cero. I don't know why [laughs].
Grant Wahl:
It's funny, because we have Landon on my podcast after every U.S. men's World Cup qualifier talking about the game. I'll try and get him to say that and we'll make it a sound bite but...
John Sutcliffe:
Yeah. Yeah.
“Mexico's been living a big lie. I think that this pandemic, this economic crisis, has made the teams in Central America really go down. I covered Mexico in the summer in the Gold Cup and the other tournaments they played. And you could see how Honduras and El Salvador, they were struggling to get the Covid tests, what hotel they're going to stay in. They don't have money to do all the logistics. So I do think that Canada, the States and Mexico have shown their power, their strength in money and organization. So now when Honduras and El Salvador and Costa Rica can’t compete, then Mexico is qualifying very easily to the World Cup. But that doesn't mean you're playing better.” — John Sutcliffe
Grant Wahl:
We've known each other for a long time. I was actually thinking back to when I first met you. Was it the 1998 World Cup?
John Sutcliffe:
Probably. My first World Cup I covered was for radio in ‘94. In '98 it was with Univision. I covered Bordeaux and Nantes. So that's when I started to learn a lot of things about television, like Q&A and live-to-tape and all those things that I had no idea what it was, but yes, in the good old days with Andrés Cantor and Norberto Longo and Jesse Losada. Remember those good old days?
Grant Wahl:
The glory days, man, a lot of good memories. I think I met you in Nantes, it must have been, because I was there covering a game early in the tournament between Nigeria and Spain, which was a classic one.
John Sutcliffe:
I have a great story about that game. So Bora Milutinovic, I've known Bora since I was five years old, because a man called Nick Petrovic brought him to Mexico. He was like his second dad, brought him to play with Pumas, and I met Bora when I was five. We belonged to the same golf course, Club Chapultepec. So I remember the day before that game, the Prime Minister, the main government official of Nigeria, had passed away. So Bora went to the press conference and if you remember, he only gave his words of what had happened and he basically cut off the press conference, but he said, "With you," he pointed at me and he said," I'll talk to you after," so all the Spanish media came next to me and Bora said, "I'm only going to talk to him."
So it's one of those that you're young, you're trying to make your name, and Bora gave me all that publicity. It was awesome. I love him. I still see him this time of year. He usually comes back from Qatar to see his daughter, and he's somebody very special in my life because when I was seven, eight years old, he would take me to go see Pumas, and I was an América fan, but it was part of...
You know, I didn't realize who he was. He would just train us at the club. And then when I started growing up, he's a professional soccer player and he's a head coach and it was awesome. So yes, that and then if I'm not mistaken, Nigeria won like 4-2 or...
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Grant Wahl:
They beat Spain. One of the greatest World Cup games I've ever seen, and Bora was coaching that Nigeria team. The crazy thing, John, is there's so many new fans, including my listeners of the U.S. men's national team over the last few years that a lot of them don't even know who Bora is. And I should explain to them right now. Bora Milutinovic coached the U.S. in the '94 World Cup, got them to the second round, lost to Brazil. But he also coached the Mexican national team.
John Sutcliffe:
He's the only coach to have been in five World Cups, because he was Mexico '86, Costa Rica '90, U.S. '94, Nigeria '98, China 2002. And he actually had to patent his name in China because they were making plates and towels and t-shirts with Bora's name. So yes, he's a very different character that I do think that Mexican football has not given him his respect. I think Bora has a chip on his shoulder on that side, Grant, that he's never been really given what he's done for Mexican football. That's something that I think made him leave Mexico a long time ago.
Grant Wahl:
It's really interesting. He got Mexico to the quinto partido], the fifth game, in 1986, which hasn't...
John Sutcliffe:
Germany...
Grant Wahl:
... happened. Yeah. They go out on penalties to Germany.
John Sutcliffe:
Penalty kicks, yeah.
Grant Wahl:
And I visited him in China in '02 before that World Cup, and he was an absolute rock star there. But he's living in Qatar most of the time now. So I'm looking forward to seeing him at the World Cup.
So when it comes to Liga MX, what's standing out to you these days in terms of storylines?
John Sutcliffe:
I think you have the teams that have money, the teams that have been spending money and not necessarily getting the best results. But I think you have different social classes, because the most popular teams for years have been América, Cruz Azul and Pumas, but right now the two rich teams are in Monterey, Rayados and Tigres. Tigres is I think the only team that can compete spending-wise with MLS teams for the Mexicans. I can tell you they went for Héctor Herrera. They've been going after him for a while. I also heard that Austin was close to getting Héctor Herrera, so that's what we're seeing.
But there also is a big pandemic economic crisis. Now 12 teams make the playoffs. It's ridiculous, but I think Mexican soccer is living hard times because of COVID, just like the MLS has had hard times. But at the end of the day, Chivas and América are the two most popular teams. América will retain Santiago Solari. They're going to finally spend money. I think América used to be known like the Riches, we called them Ricky Ricón, remember that cartoon Richie Rich?
Grant Wahl:
Yep.
John Sutcliffe:
And he would spend all the money. That's how América used to be. And they haven't done that lately. And I think they've realized that if they don't start putting some money up, they're not going to be able to compete with Tigres or Rayados.