The Interview: Todd Dunivant

The Sacramento Republic president/GM on meeting KC in the US Open Cup semifinals and trying to become the first non-MLS team to win the Open Cup since 1999

Courtesy Sacramento Republic

Todd Dunivant won five MLS Cup titles and nearly claimed a sixth if the LA Galaxy hadn’t lost to Real Salt Lake in 2009 on penalties. For the past four years he has been an executive with Sacramento Republic, the USL team that’s two games away from making history in the U.S. Open Cup.

The entirety of the written interview below is reserved for paid subscribers. As always, you can still get the entire free audio version of my podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to go for your pods.

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Grant Wahl:

Our guest now is Todd Dunivant, the president and general manager of Sacramento Republic, which meets Sporting Kansas City in the U.S. Open Cup semifinals this Wednesday at 10:30 pm Eastern. Todd, congrats on everything you're doing, and thanks for coming on the show.

Todd Dunivant:

Thank you, Grant. Good to be here.

Todd Dunivant on the team salary difference between Sacramento and the LA Galaxy team it beat in the Open Cup: “It's safe to say there’s probably a 20x multiple involved there. And that is what it is. The fun part is for our guys, they get to go out and try to show why they belong and prove themselves. That’s why we play the game.”

Grant Wahl:

So I'm going to start with something maybe a little different. We'll get into the Open Cup semis here in a second, but you won five MLS Cup titles in your playing career. And I know that José Mourinho used to call Arsene Wenger a "specialist in failure," which I always thought was not true and kind of uncool, but I think it's kind of fair to call you a specialist in winning. And I'm wondering what sort of characteristics you've seen in winning operations that maybe don't exist everywhere in the soccer world?

Todd Dunivant:

Wow, great, deep question to start off. And I appreciate that ... That should be the new tagline for me. No, honestly, the key to success for me has always been the collective and the team. And that's ultimately what I love about sports. That's what I found out and figured out why I love soccer, is surrounding yourself with great people. And I was a part of some really great teams. I had great teammates, great coaches, and that's always been my key to success. 

I was a left back. Often didn't get noticed. But did my job well and allowed others to do their jobs. And it sounds simple, but having that plus a competitive drive, a little resiliency, some perseverance, all those things end up helping. But being part of different championship teams, there's different makeups to each of those teams and each of those runs, every single one is a little bit different. But I think ultimately when it comes down to it, having that focus in the critical moments and being able to step up to the plate when a lot's on the line, I think that's always the differentiator.

Grant Wahl:

And what sort of different perspectives do you have on all of that now that you've been an executive for several years, as opposed to the player's perspective?

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Todd Dunivant:

Being on this side has kind of given me a little bit deeper perspective because you have more time to think and analyze, and you're trying to relay that to the team, to the coaches, to learn from each other on past experiences, successes, failures. I think that's a huge part of winning, is actually losing and understanding why you lost, what happened, analyzing. 

I'll never forget ...So you mentioned the five wins. We also lost one in 2009 against Real Salt Lake. And I can tell you right now when we lost it. It was probably a week before the final. We were at training, funnily enough, in the shower. But guys were talking about, "We shouldn't get championship rings if we win. We should get watches. You don't use rings, but watches would be more ..." And so already the mindset was taking us beyond the game, and our focus wasn't there. We tried to correct it in real time, but that was the moment where we probably lost the final and weren't prepared for the grind and the battle that was ahead of us.

Grant Wahl:

New light shed on a 13-year-old final, which I covered. I did not know that. That’s interesting. A non-MLS team has not won the U.S. Open Cup since Rochester in 1999, and Sacramento has a chance to do it. Where does this semifinal on Wednesday at home in front of your fans, where does that rank in terms of important games in the history of your club?

Todd Dunivant:

It’s going to be right at the top. I mean, you never want to compare eras, and this club absolutely exploded in 2014. I was part of the Galaxy then when Rodrigo López and the team had that kind of ... They call it the Miracle at Bonney. And it was just an incredible moment that 20,000 fans got to see, and Sacramento kind of exploded onto the scene. Since then the focus has largely been on MLS. And moving forward as a club, I think we've used this last year and some of the recent events to kind of refocus and say, hey, how do we move the club forward? And one of the things was we need to win. We need to have a winning team, a successful team. We started off well in the league but also gave ourselves a chance in Open Cup to make a run. And things have gone well for us. Our guys have been massive in the tournament, a huge win, kind of different wins along the way.

I think we've played five games already in the tournament, which adds a lot of congestion. But our guys have been great about it and I think our staff has been really smart about how they've managed the group. And so with this game coming up, we are going to have a sold-out crowd. It's sold out in a matter of minutes, frankly. It was crazy. We've never seen anything like that. It's going to be shoulder to shoulder at Heart Health Park. There'll be more people in there than ever before. And I think the atmosphere, the excitement, all of those things are going to be truly special and it's going to be a night to remember. So we're looking forward to it.

Grant Wahl:

It's interesting because I was playing a game recently with some friends where we were trying to figure out the most populous U.S. city we have not been to. And literally mine was Sacramento, California. So one, I want to rectify that. I'm sorry I won't be rectifying it next week. I'm going to be in England on a story. But if you make the final, do we know where the final will be?

Todd Dunivant:

Yeah. The final will be in either Orlando or [at the New York Red Bulls]. We would not be able to host the final. I know that.

Grant Wahl:

Okay. So I would have to rectify it some other way then, but it will be rectified.

Todd Dunivant:

We make that happen. Grant. We can make that happen any time. 100%.

Grant Wahl:

I would look forward to it, because the culture of soccer in Sacramento is something I've been paying attention to for a while. How would you describe the culture around soccer in Sacramento?

Todd Dunivant:

You know, it's different here. It really is. I think when I first came, it hit me pretty quickly when I was taking an Uber from the airport to my hotel, the Uber driver knew about the team. He wasn't a sports fan. He certainly didn't know anything about soccer, but he knew about the Republic. He knew we were planning to build a stadium downtown. And that is what you hear and see all around town. You see the gear. The team truly matters. So the support, even the media attention, frankly. We're on NBC, ABC, CBS. Fox is our partner. When we make big announcements, when things happen, everyone across the board covers us. 

You don't get that in most major markets and certainly most Major League Soccer markets. So it is special here. It's different. We have the NBA Kings, certainly, but beyond that, and the River Cats, our AAA baseball team, the Republic has really found a great place in the hearts of sports fans here. And it's a great time. People love coming out to the games, and our support has only gotten bigger over the years.

Grant Wahl:

You've eliminated some prominent teams during your Open Cup run: LA Galaxy, San Jose Earthquakes, Phoenix Rising. In what ways have you as a team prioritized this tournament? How has this run come together for you?

Todd Dunivant:

Yeah, we always prioritize Open Cup. And in fact, we try to put some byes in our league schedule strategically during this period. So during May, during June, so that we give ourselves a little bit of a chance, because we don't have a 30-man roster. We have a 20-to-22-man roster, so to be able to do both competitions becomes challenging. So we have put some strategic byes in there. 

The tournament itself is such a great tournament. I think anyone you would ask would say they would like to win it, but they also have to make trade-offs. And we have to make trade-offs. We played lower division teams. We played division one teams. And you have to make trade-offs. You have to try to advance and do that in the most efficient way possible with your roster. And I think every team has to go through that.

For us, we've been all in on the tournament. And like you said, we've had some very good opponents. And the fun part is you get to see some disparity between levels, and that David versus Goliath is a great story. It's something everyone can relate to. And I think it's what's been fun for us to kind of capture some attention in that we're punching above our weight. It's something Sacramento's always loved to do, and not being the first city that comes to mind when you talk about California, but we’ve got a pretty good thing going here and I think it's something that our fans and the people of Sacramento take a lot of pride in.

Grant Wahl:

I feel like the Open Cup is slowly making gains as a tournament and how it's viewed around the country. And part of that has to do with the games being available on ESPN+. And you can see the games, you can watch a night of games. My friends Herc Gómez and Sebi Salazar even did a whiparound show one night on ESPN+ with what they do. And I think that's all great. Do you have any ideas for even more that could be done to make the U.S. Open Cup an even bigger tournament in the U.S.?

Todd Dunivant:

Yeah, I think the interest comes when there's cupsets, as they call them, when you have lower division teams beating higher division teams. It's just fun to see. It's fun to watch. That shouldn't happen. Right? But it does. And it's something that I think captures the imagination. So the more in the Open Cup you can highlight those stories, highlight those opportunities, and I've heard some different ideas that I think potentially make a lot of sense of letting lower division teams host the games against higher division teams automatically if they so choose. I think that makes a ton of sense, because you're going to get bigger crowds. You're going to get more excitement and potentially more cupsets, which is what people enjoy seeing, you know?

And so I think that's one that makes a lot of sense. I know there's logistics and other issues with that, but I think without a doubt it is something that makes sense. You know, when I was with the LA Galaxy, we lost two or three years in a row to North Carolina. We traveled there three years in a row, just a quirk in the schedule. And for some reason, that was always our first opponent and we didn't have the right mentality going into those games and ultimately lost every single time. But that's interesting, and it helped North Carolina in terms of their interest and the fans. And I think that's one that could make a lot of sense.

Grant Wahl:

Do you mind me asking sort of like, when you take on Kansas City or the LA Galaxy, how much more is their team salary? Like, how many times more is their team salary compared to yours?

Todd Dunivant:

Yeah, our salaries aren't published. Obviously, MLS's are. But I think it's safe to say there's probably a 20x multiple involved there. And that is what it is. The fun part is for our guys, they get to go out and try to show why they belong and prove themselves. That's why we play the game. And that's why we’re all competitors and everyone wants to win. So it's the same when we played Central Valley Fuego, who's a League One team, or Portland Timbers U23s. I mean, this is the disparity. There was a disparity there too, and those guys wanted to come out and take us down. So that's fun. I think that's the fun stuff. When I was a college player, I loved scrimmaging against MLS teams, getting those friendlies in, because it's a chance to test yourself, to prove your mettle.

Grant Wahl:

You alluded to it earlier. Sacramento's obviously had a long history pursuing becoming an MLS expansion team. There was even an announcement that it was happening. Then Ron Burkle pulled out of the ownership group. Where are we right now on MLS possibilities with Sacramento? Is it still being pursued or is it not being pursued at this point?

Todd Dunivant:

Yeah, we've said all along we're going to continue to pursue it. The lead investor has always been kind of the last piece for Sacramento, we've sort of checked the box and then some in terms of our market and proving that we'd be a great MLS market. We've also got a downtown stadium plan with city alignment that you just don't often see. It's an incredible piece of property downtown that we're ready to build on. 

And so we're going to keep pushing on that, and we're not going to stop. I think that's one thing that Sacramento doesn't do. If you want to boil down our identity into one word, it's indomitable. And that's in the city motto, and essentially it's perseverance. It's the idea that you're not going to be defeated. You're not going to be subdued.

So that for us is what we're about and we're going to keep going, but we're also not going to wait around. And I think that's what we've tried to do in the last 12 months is take destiny into our own hands a little bit and build a new stadium with or without MLS. And I think that's what we want to do. We want to move the club forward. Our fans deserve it. Our team deserves it. This community deserves it. And we think that's a path forward for the club in either scenario.

Grant Wahl:

What is your sense of the USL, the league you're in right now, and its future and what they're doing?

Todd Dunivant:

USL continues to grow. I've mentioned 2014. How far the league has come in just these last eight, nine years is remarkable. And you're seeing a lot of teams building their own soccer-specific stadiums, controlling their venues, growing revenues, having player sales, transfers on the worldwide market. I think there's an appetite for it. And there's also very much a place for USL in the soccer landscape in this country. 

People don't give enough credit. Soccer is young in America. It just is. Having MLS being around for, I don't know, 26, 27 years now, USL is still forming. There's a lot of teams that are popping up in places you would've never thought there would be soccer teams. And then having them do well. I mean, who would've thought Cincinnati? Who would've thought Sacramento? Who would've thought Orlando? And all these places popping up, it is cool to see, but it's also new and it's young. And that, for me, is fun. And USL is a major reason why a lot of these markets are coming online, and I'm sure there'll be more to come.

Grant Wahl:

One thing I did want to ask you about, you've been with Sacramento for four years now, but before that you had 2017 with a team called the San Francisco Deltas, which won an NASL title in their first season and then folded. There's some really interesting stories out there that people have written about that one season. How would you describe that whole experience?

Todd Dunivant:

How much time do we have on the podcast? I could go on for days on that. I mean, it was an incredible two years. We had kind of one year in 2016. I retired at the end of 2015. I think I was the fifth employee at the club and had the small task of putting together the soccer operation, creating a merchandise line from scratch, and then also being in charge of sponsorships. So I was really happy that my marriage stayed together and I kept some friendships along the way. But no, it was just an incredible experience. We had a year to kind of build the club up. We joined NASL in 2017, ended up being our first and only season. We found out midway through that year that we weren't going to be coming back.

And yet the team, the players, Marc dos Santos as head coach, the best hire we made, turned it into a positive and into a motivating factor, and kind of propelled their way through the rest of the second half of that season and ended up winning the last NASL championship. It was incredible. And those players, we still keep in touch. It was a very tight knit group. So many great stories came out of it, and a lot of people still in the soccer landscape that were involved in that.

Grant Wahl:

I'm curious to know, you've had this very interesting experience. You've won so much as a player in MLS. You've been an executive with different teams in different leagues. It's still possible, obviously, that Sacramento could join MLS at some point. What do you want to do in your career? Do you have a specific desire to be an executive with an MLS team at some point? What do you want?

Todd Dunivant:

Yeah, that's a good question. I think I try to be as present as possible. Of course, you're always, as a competitor, being in this business, you want to push yourself and be at the highest level possible. I've always taken things one step at a time. I was never ready as a 16-year-old to sign a professional contract. I needed to kind of go to college, have four years there, get drafted. It was always step by step. And that's how I’ve lived. I've never taken shortcuts and always try to earn everything I get.

And I absolutely love it here in Sacramento. We have a great owner in Kevin Nagle who, without him, this club doesn't exist. And he supports everything we do. And I'm so thankful for him for this opportunity to be able to first be a GM with a club for three years, and then be able to add the president title to that and be able to do a lot on that side. So it's truly an honor to be here. And again, I think we have unfinished business in Sacramento. We've got this Open Cup run. We've got league ambitions. There's still a lot to do here, and from there only good things happen.

Grant Wahl:

Todd Dunivant is the president and general manager of Sacramento Republic, which meets Sporting Kansas City in the U.S. Open Cup semifinals this Wednesday at 10:30 pm Eastern. Todd, thanks so much for coming on the show.

Todd Dunivant:

Thank you, Grant. Great to be here.