The Interview: Stu Holden

The Fox Sports Broadcaster on the USMNT, MLS, Voice Lessons, Losing Friendships Over His Work Opinions, Buying His First House with Poker Winnings and Much More

(Photo by Roy Rochlin/Getty Images)

On the night before Stu Holden of Fox Sports called the biggest game of his life, the 2018 World Cup final, he came to my room at our Moscow hotel and we recorded a podcast interview. I always thought it was cool that Holden was willing to do that in that moment. Holden has been a great team guy as a player and as a media colleague. He has worked his tail off to get better as a broadcaster, too, and he’s now clearly one of the best in the business. Earlier this week we got together for our first interview since that night four years ago.

The entirety of the written interview below is reserved for paid subscribers. As always, you can still get the entire free audio version of my podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to go for your pods.

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Grant Wahl:

Our guest now is one of the leading broadcasters in American soccer. Stu Holden is an analyst for Fox Sports, which is broadcasting the huge U.S. men's national team World Cup qualifier against Panama on March 27 at 7 pm Eastern on FS1. He's with me and a bunch of other people in Miami Beach this week for the Soccerex conference. Stu, it's the first time I've seen you in person since before the pandemic. It's great to see you. Thanks for coming on the show.

Stu Holden:

Yeah, that's crazy to think about. Two years feels like a long time in this world. You and I are, before we came on here, were talking about 2010, and you said 12 years. I was thinking, man, has it been that long since I was actually playing meaningful soccer games? The sad part is it is.

Grant Wahl:

This is a sign we are getting older, my friend, but we're doing it together at least.

Stu Holden:

I know.

Grant Wahl:

First off, how are you? I know you've been working a ton with a lot of things going on, but I also know you had a pretty major surgery recently.

Stu Holden:

Yes. So I had a partial knee replacement. Half of my knee is now metal. I'm 36 years old. It's kind of a tough pill to swallow, to be honest, but this goes back to the original injury I picked up against Man United, Jonny Evans. So when he tackled me, without boring your podcast listeners to death here, I think people are pretty aware of my injury history and the stuff that came subsequently with ACL tears. But all of that actually comes back to this original injury. I was told at the time by a surgeon, this was a one in a million type injury. I said, I'm glad I'm the one in this case, which is not good. Very bad luck, but a chunk of my knee was actually fractured off in that time, and it was pinned to fix.

Then the pin had messed up the cartilage and I'd had a microfracture to try and basically fix that part of my knee, the cartilage. As it has, we talked about 2010, that was 2011. That's 11 years ago. It is all completely gone. I was living for the last year and a half, two years just limping around coworkers, not happy with what I could do activity-wise. Couldn't catch my 20 month old son, who would run away from me. Got to a point like, Hey, I need to do something about this. I had what they call a quality of life procedure. I had a pretty major surgery. It wasn't a decision that actually came very easily for me, because I was like, Hey, I'm probably going to have to have this replaced in 20 years. I'm seven weeks after the surgery and I feel great. The least amount of pain I've had in 10 years. I'm strong. I'm on the bike. I'm almost running again. So yeah, I feel good. I feel good.

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Grant Wahl:

I'm glad to hear that from a quality of life perspective. Cause I don't know if all of us were aware of how much pain that was still causing you.

Stu Holden:

Yeah. Legitimately, every couple of steps, I would feel sharp pains that just hit me. I always used to say this. I used to say, when I was coming back from injuries, I said, I don't care what happens. I'm going to push this until I can't push it anymore. I know that this is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and I'm going to give it everything from my body, from my heart, from my mind. I said, whatever surgeries they have in the future, it's going to fix it. I didn't think it was going to hurt as much as it did this last six weeks. That was the most pain after a surgery. I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change it. I got to live out my dream. I suffered from a body perspective, and I don't know what the next 30, 40 years are going to hold for me, but I'm in the moment. I'm a big believer in science and technology. If I have a robotic leg in the next six years, bring it on.

Grant Wahl:

You'll be in Orlando broadcasting this big World Cup qualifier against Panama on March 27. For you, what are the biggest storylines for the U.S. heading into these games against Mexico, Panama and Costa Rica?

Stu Holden on being critical of former teammates on TV: “I've lost relationships because of it, for sure, with former teammates. I think for the most part, players understand if you do it in the right way. I got this advice from I think it was John Harkes, actually, when I first started doing television was like, ‘Whatever you say on camera, be prepared to say it to somebody's face. If you can't say it to their face, you're going to deal with the repercussions, and you might get treated differently by certain people. You're going to lose friendships, relationships, and you might also get cut out of certain parts of the game.’ I've had teammates that haven't liked the way that I've said something or said something about them, part of my job, but I try to be fair. I genuinely try to. I have no hidden agendas when it comes to teams.”

Stu Holden:

One of the biggest ones is slightly unexpected. It's in the goalkeeper position. Granted, I know now you and I are talking here and this could potentially change, but Zack Steffen is back in training, which is good. Ethan Horvath is finally playing for Nottingham Forest. Matt Turner is still out, but goalkeeper is a position that ... I don't know who's our starter right now? Is it Turner or is it Steffen? Steffen can't seem to stay healthy. Matt Turner is going to go to Arsenal. Is he going to play? So I'm already looking forward of like, well, you want a guy that's going to be playing consistently heading into a World Cup, I think, at that position. The Weston McKennie one is a big one. He's out. Who's going to fill that void? You get Gio Reyna back.

Really for this team, I've been saying this for two years, and I've been so impressed. I didn't anticipate the way in which this young group would take over the team. I thought you'd still have some other guys in the mix. Gregg [Berhalter] has trusted these guys handled the pressure so well, but now is real pressure. When you're going to Mexico in Azteca, I know it's not been the fortress it has been in the previous cycles, but this is a big game for these players. We've had the better of Mexico, but not in Mexico. I feel like this could almost become a window and another continuation of this coming of age of these young players and taking responsibility.

[Christian] Pulisic coming in the best form we've seen him come into a U.S. camp. Can he really be the guy now? From four years ago, he had the goal in the game against Panama in Orlando, and then they went down and they lost. I'm not putting any of that Pulisic, but can he now have that redemption story of, I led this team back to the World Cup where we need to be? I think they'll get it done. I think they'll be in Qatar.

Grant Wahl:

Yeah, I do too. It may not be easy. You're looking at, if they want to control their own destiny, probably at least one point in Mexico, three points home against Panama will probably get it done. But…

Stu Holden:

But you're right. The but and the hesitation and the pause, we all feel now because we've been there. I've been talking to so many people here and everybody's like, we're going to make it? There's still this pause and this hesitation, because we've seen it go so wrong. I would hate to be in a position where this team has to go down to Costa Rica to get anything to win. Historically tells us that too. But I know this isn't the same Costa Rica. If they could qualify live on Fox Sports in Orlando, we would love that. We would celebrate it massively, but also selfishly putting that part aside, I just don't want to go through the stress as a fan. We want them to qualify. We all do.

Grant Wahl:

Yeah. There's PTSD there and it's going to be there until the U.S. qualifies. If the U.S. can qualify for this World Cup, what do you see that might be changed or added by November?

Stu Holden:

I don't think a lot. I think you're going to see a couple players still emerge. It happens every single cycle. There's always a name, whether it's Hérculez Gómez and Edson Buddle, I remember for our 2010 World Cup, because those guys weren't in the picture, and Herc, I think at the time, was scoring every other game down in Mexico. Then he's on the World Cup team and he was starting and playing in games and playing meaningful minutes. I look to Major League Soccer where I think you'll probably find a player like that, a guy that's just red hot form, a guy like Cade Cowell perhaps. You look at some of these young players that are going to get opportunities, get minutes. Really it is about form and peaking at the right time.

You're going to be coming off the back of all these seasons ending at the same time, so everybody's going to be in the same type of fitness. But from a coaching perspective, it'll be very similar. It's going to be a big challenge for Gregg Berhalter, I think, because of the fact that the seasons are going to end and then the World Cup's going to start 10 days later. You're not going to have much time to train, to have a friendly even. That might even be, who knows what the world looks like at that point.

Grant Wahl:

Yeah.

Stu Holden:

So, yeah, I don't see many, any big changes from the team, but they’ve got to find a way to play some games that mean something so you're heading into that tournament with like a real sense of togetherness.

Grant Wahl:

The fact of the matter is, due to COVID mainly, but also due to the Nations League happening with UEFA and all the South American qualifiers, the U.S. under Berhalter hasn't played that many top teams even in friendlies.

Stu Holden:

I actually see this conversation a lot. I'm glad you brought it up. It's an important one because that's no fault of U.S. Soccer or Gregg Berhalter, and the padding of the stats against the Jamaicas and the Trinidads. These were the only teams you could actually play because, to your point, the calendars changed a lot. The Nations League teams in Europe are all playing games that are qualifiers and they mean something. So that's a really big point, I think, of emphasis, of how can you find games that replicate the cadence or the travel of what you're potentially going to see in a World Cup?

Grant Wahl:

Hopefully we'll get some friendlies this summer against some top competition. We'll have to wait and see what comes out on that. I can't believe it's been four years, but you were kind enough to do a podcast interview with me. I think our last one, actually.

Stu Holden:

Yeah.

Grant Wahl:

In my hotel room the night before you broadcast the World Cup final in 2018. What did getting the opportunity to call a World Cup final mean for your career?

Stu Holden:

I've had some incredible opportunities at Fox Sports, and I came here knowing that I needed to learn, I needed to get better. Thankfully, I've had people that have believed in me and to have that type of opportunity with a guy like John Strong, who I'd been calling games with for a couple years in the lead-up to that point. But you're right. I remember you and I sitting there the night before, and you're like, are you available? And I said, yeah. I just wanted to do as many normal things as possible because it was a big moment for me, I felt like, in my broadcasting career, and one that I almost felt surreal to be a part of. I did take a moment after that where the game's about to start.

The teams were walking out, they're doing the anthems on the field, and I took my headset off and I just kind of sat there for a moment and soaked up the atmosphere and allowed myself to enjoy it. Then it was game time. Then after the game ended, people that follow me on social might not like to hear this part, but I didn't want anything to distort my experience in that moment, because it really was a career moment. I didn't check social media. I didn't get on. I didn't want to look for anything. I just wanted to kind of live in that experience. It was one for me, I think that ... I've called a World Cup final. It's on American broadcast television, and 17 million people that day heard my voice.

It's really cool to think that I was given that opportunity. People trusted me with that, and I felt like I did a good job, but it's also one that as I continue to grow I watched it back actually not so long ago. There's things I think I would do better or say differently, and hopefully I can take that experience with me through to Qatar at the end of this year and take now my broadcasting to that next level.

Grant Wahl:

Cause that was going to be my next question is, what kinds of things can you learn from your experience of broadcasting the 2018 World Cup that will help you when presumably you're part of the World Cup broadcast later this year?

Stu Holden:

Well, the main thing I'll have going for me is that I won't be traveling on 9,000 flights in and around Russia and doing Russian red-eyes at four in the morning and then calling a game at 8 pm that night. Everything's going to be drivable, so that's a major bonus from a prep standpoint from an ability to do some studio stuff. I think what I learned in that tournament is that each game itself is like a big, big game. To Swedish fans and German fans, that game we did in Sochi, and Germany scored the late goal to equalize against the Swedish team. How do you prepare for each game individually and not get caught in storylines, but allow the game to be the game? I think that's the biggest thing I've learned as a broadcaster in big tournaments.

In MLS, we do a lot of storytelling. We try to build stars. We want people to care about the players on the field. In World Cups, these guys are stars. Every person watching at home knows every player. They know Ronaldo, they know Messi. They know their guys from Sweden and Germany. So there's some really cool and interesting stories, but it's about the game and it's how can you add to that without taking away from it? You never want to become the show. You want the show to be the action on the field. Listening back to certain games and moments of times to come in as a broadcaster and times to just let the atmosphere soak in. And the directors, because we're not in charge of the pictures. I don't know how many people that listen to this are aware of that.

It's a world feed. Every broadcaster gets the same feed. So you start to learn what you're probably going to see next, but the A crew or B crew of the world feed will cut to a random fan as you're breaking down a play. Then you have to pivot and talk about what's on the picture. So I learned all that in doing big tournaments. It's a very high quality. You get so many cameras, you get so many looks, but you have to be able to react to what's on the picture because that's what people are seeing at home.

Grant Wahl:

I always thought one of the biggest challenges in that situation would be if they show a dignitary from some country in the stands, and it's not like France or something. It’s like Iran.

Stu Holden:

That's when John and I look at each other. Thankfully John is an encyclopedia of the most useless facts. Sorry, John. Also very useful facts. He's the stat man. It's in his brain. I look at him sometimes when he's speaking and I'm thinking, where is that coming from? He'll rattle off in this back chamber of his brain. Yeah, a dignitary will pop up. We were doing Copa América and they kept showing Alejandro Domínguez, the President of CONMEBOL. It was almost like he was paid by the appearance, but every time John ... There's Alejandro Dominguez and there's his right hand man. I just am quiet in those moments because you don't want to get it wrong.

Grant Wahl:

Oh shoot. So I have been told that you put in some real work over the years to get your voice stronger, and I'm wondering what sort of stuff have you done for that.

Stu Holden:

Hi Shaw Brown, who is a producer [laughs]. Shaw's one of the guys who got me into TV. You and I know him very well. Yeah, John actually said this to me the other day, too. John Strong. We watched back highlights. We were joking over dinner about the first game we ever called together. It was the first game I'd ever done on TV. It was San Jose against Chicago on a Thursday night in MLS. I sound like a different person. I don't have a naturally deep commanding voice like someone like John does or Mark Followill. Mark looks at you and he's like Mr. Ron Burgundy with this broadcaster voice. I don't have that. I listen to the way that I say things back then, and worked really a lot on tone and delivery.

I took a couple voice lessons on how to speak more from your diaphragm and how to project, but also tone. I've actually listened to podcasts I've done, and I think I'm talking too fast. I'm not taking pauses. I'm not enunciating in a way that I think captures people's attention. That's something I've worked a lot on, because when you're calling a game especially, because I'm very animated. I use my hands a lot. So in studio I think that works because I'm a high energy guy, but when you're talking, people don't see your body language. They can't feel that emotion, and you have to be able to project that through your voice. I remember Shaw was one of the first ones that told me. He's like, "Hey, when you speak, let me believe that you believe what you're saying, and can you say it in a way that is commanding? You might be wrong, but it's your opinion, so be strong with your opinion and don't tail off because then the viewer kind of feels like, he's not convinced that actually happened for that reason."

That's a lot of what I worked on especially was, in big moments how can you come in with the type of voice that can match that? It's one thing David Neal, our executive producer, always says. These things, you don't know when they're going to happen, but how can you add from an analysis standpoint, but also from a TV perspective to match that moment and give it what it deserves because you've seen one of the greatest things happen. Can your voice now be associated with that moment in the right way, but not trying to say it in these crazy cliche catchphrases that just come off cheesy. So it's things I think about a lot as I'm going into games, but then you don't know. Like Zlatan, I remember that moment and John's like, “Oh, come on!” I was like, well, what do I say now? I think I said “LAFC have been Zlatan’d!” Which was clearly something I thought about. I think it worked.

Grant Wahl:

It was good.

Stu Holden:

Maybe it didn't.

Grant Wahl:

I remember it. I think viewers don't always think about that broadcasters can change over time, that you get reps, you get experience, you get growth and you also work on your craft, as you have. I try to remind myself with athletes I interview that just because someone isn't "a great interview" at age 20 doesn't mean they won't be at 25 or 28, or if they're Taylor Twellman and go on and become an ESPN broadcaster.

Stu Holden:

Yeah, he did not like media at all, right?

Grant Wahl:

Right.

Stu Holden:

But I watched my interviews as a player, and Shaw was like, well, I knew you'd do TV. I say really? I watched the goal I scored in the Gold Cup and they're interviewing me after. I came up with like, we’ve got to go back to the drawing board. We need to really work hard. We need to do this. I was like, that's not a good interview. I'm not seeing personality. We interview guys all the time now. I just wish I could speak to all of these guys, whether you want to go into media or not. From a likability, from a branding standpoint. Even to your teammates, you can communicate in ways on interviews. We all talk about it. Weston McKennie does a great job of that. The guy turns up in crutches in a boot at an LAFC game. I was like, that was me 10 years ago. I wanted to be around. I wanted to be the face of the team. I just felt like it made me a bigger part of who I was. He's a guy that in 10 years will be taking my job and calling the World Cup final [laughs].

Grant Wahl:

I did want to ask you about another part of the job that everyone in your position has to think about at some point, which is how hard is it to criticize players or coaches who might be your friends?

Stu Holden:

I've lost relationships because of it, for sure, with former teammates where guys ... I think for the most part, players understand if you do it in the right way. I feel like whatever I say, I got this advice from I think it was John Harkes actually, when I first started doing television was like, whatever you say on camera, be prepared to say it to somebody's face. If you can't say it to their face, you're going to deal with the repercussions and you might get treated differently by certain people. You're going to lose friendships, relationships, and you might also get cut out of certain parts of the game. I've had teammates that haven't liked the way that I've said something or said something about them, part of my job, but I try to be fair. I genuinely try to. I have no hidden agendas when it comes to teams.

Galaxy fans think that I hate their team. I don't hate the Galaxy. I really like the Galaxy. I want them to be successful. But when I call a game, I'm trying to call it down the middle. I'm calling what I see. Yeah, I think it was difficult for me when I was still one foot in, one foot out, for sure. When I first started television and I was then going into January camp with Jurgen [Klinsmann]'s teams and I would see the guys, but then the next week I'm doing a game and I'm broadcasting the Gold Cup or something and talking to these same guys, I started to sense a bit of ... Nobody directly said it to my face, but you know how you can feel that energy of just an uneasiness, that whose team are you on kind of feel.

But then once I retired and I said, this is my job now. To do my job the best, I have to be able to be all in on that aspect. Yeah, like I said, I've lost some friendships, but clearly those friendships weren't as strong as I thought they were if that's what is the tipping point,

Grant Wahl:

And if you're not getting at least some of that, I don't think you are doing your job.

Stu Holden:

You're right. You're right, because some of the things that I think we have to say to be interesting, or the things that are interesting, not to be interesting. The things that are interesting are exactly as you said, the strong opinions, strong analysis, sometimes controversial opinions. If you sit on the fence the whole time, to me you're not very interesting. You probably don't last in this job that long,

Grant Wahl:

The MLS season has just started. What are the most interesting things going on in the league in your opinion right now?

Stu Holden:

I think the interesting part to me is seeing everybody trying to, now with the GAM and TAM era and trying to find ways to really compete. I do think that now there's some more pressure within the league to have a team that's competitive on the field. I think about the Houston Dynamo, perfect example. My former club, MLS Cup champions, irrelevant currently in MLS if we're being honest, and have been for a number of years. I think made the playoffs one out of the last six years. A team that has a new owner now, is investing, is really connecting with alumni, brought Pat Onstad in as a general manager. Héctor Herrera they're signing in the summer, which was a big name. They're buying some young DP players, some TAM players. They recognize that in order to be relevant in MLS, and in Houston, you've got to compete.

I think you're seeing that now around the league. Austin coming in and spending money, Cincinnati not getting it right, but understanding there's a pressure to their fan base that they have this beautiful stadium and this rabid fan base, but they have to have a good product on the field, and trying to do that. The other part to me is this continued evolution of Alexi Lalas trademark SuperClubs of Atlanta United, still spending big money. LAFC, I think, are going to be back this year, have a first time head coach and the former teammate, Steve Cherundolo. The Galaxy needing to big and good again. They're still, I think, working towards that. Seattle, Portland, it's a fun league now.

I look around at these players and there's good players in MLS. I do wonder though. I'm curious of how you feel too. They continue to spend money. [Thiago] Almada for Atlanta, they paid $16 million. At what point does MLS continue spending and spending on that type of player and then not see return on investments and not be able to sell those guys for prices that match up? Then at what point do we start to go out and get big influx of European players too?

Grant Wahl:

Yeah. Especially Atlanta, just because they are the ones who now, since [Miguel] Almirón have spent a lot on a few different players that haven't totally worked out yet. So Almada’s a guy that I'm really curious to see how that goes. Just a couple more questions here. Really appreciate you taking the time.

Stu Holden:

No problem.

Grant Wahl:

Obviously I follow you on social media. I can't help but having noticed over the years that you and your wife Carolyn have gotten pretty tight with John Legend and Chrissy Teigen. What's the story there? How did that happen?

Stu Holden:

So my daughter was in pre-K or kindergarten with their daughter, Luna, who's their oldest daughter. John, I think, or Chrissy Teigen tweeted a picture of John sitting in the same seat that I had been sitting in outside of a parent-teacher thing. Kara had sent it to me and I wrote back saying, oh, I was just sitting in that seat. We then realized we're in the same class. We got to know each other through our kids. That was three years ago. Our daughters are best friends. We've become really close with them. They've become good friends of ours. Chrissy's from Seattle, so I started to get her more into the Sounders. I remember celebrating an MLS Cup with her. They had a party at their house one time. I brought John and the whole family to a U.S. women's game before they left for the World Cup in 2019.

But really just down to earth, genuine people that we've connected with well, I think, because we share some commonality in that I'm nowhere near to the level of the celebrity that obviously they have, but having been an athlete, I think you experience certain things that John has. We talked a lot about that. He's a really intellectual smart guy. His background is so interesting when it comes to his schooling and being essentially a child genius. His musical background and the way that he exploded to fame. But just so down to earth, really nice people, and they've become really good friends of ours.

Grant Wahl:

That's really cool. You've gotten to know them. I've met them through Sports Illustrated, because she was a swimsuit model for a number of years.

Stu Holden:

Yeah.

Grant Wahl:

Then John would come to the swimsuit parties every year.

Stu Holden:

She was a model and my wife was a model too. So they have a lot in common. It's been nice. But you find when you have kids that, if you have people that your kids get along with, and then you get along with the parents, that's a big bonus and you grab on to those people and you want to keep building relationships.

Grant Wahl:

Just wanted to wrap up. Lately. I've noticed you've been trying to get some sort of soccer-related March Madness-style pools going. What are you hoping to do with that?

Stu Holden:

I'm not entirely sure. I'm a gambler, first of all. I don't know if you know my background with poker.

Grant Wahl:

Pretty intense back in college, right?

Stu Holden:

In high school I got into online poker a little bit. And then in college, I did it for a year and ended up buying my first house in Houston with it. It was like this MLS folklore story of how much did Stu make playing online poker? Because I bought a house with it. It was like the after party house where every MLS team came and partied at my house at the time. But I love pools and fantasy, and I just don't feel we have anything for soccer. I have a friend and a group at ... it's a place called Run Your Pool. They saw me tweeting about it. We've been in touch, we've become close. I wanted to start a March Madness one just to start to build a community, because I think that could be a big thing for soccer and that people enjoy doing.

So like why don't we have pools for World Cup? Why don't we have pools for MLS playoffs? Why don't we have a general ... because, A, people love to ... It's a community thing too, and they're free to enter, but it's a form of gambling, and it kind of gets you going and doing that stuff. So who knows where it's going to go? We've got over a hundred people in a chat on Discord. I keep getting people asking where it's at. I love community. You've built a great community and a following and you get to connect with all these people. Our commonality is soccer. So why can't we combine those different things? I don't know. Might be nothing, might be something really cool and fun.

Grant Wahl:

Stu Holden is an analyst for Fox Sports, which is broadcasting the U.S. men's national team's World Cup qualifier against Panama on March 27 at 7 pm Eastern on FS1. Stu, thank you.

Stu Holden:

Grant, great to see you, man. Hopefully we'll all be celebrating March 27 that the U.S. have qualified. So let's get her done! Come on boys.