The Interview: Pellegrino Matarazzo
Stuttgart's American head coach discusses his team's miraculous final day of the season to stay up in the Bundesliga
The wildest scenes of celebrations on the final day of the club season might have been in Stuttgart, where American head coach Pellegrino Matarazzo saw his team find a way to stay up in the top flight for next season. I love this interview, in part because Matarazzo gives a great sense of how the feeling of fear connected to relegation is different from other feelings in the sport.
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Grant Wahl:
Our guest now is Stuttgart's American head coach, Pellegrino Matarazzo. His team produced one of the great scenes in world football on the last day of the season. With five minutes to go to stay up in the Bundesliga and avoid the relegation playoff, they needed Dortmund to score a goal in its game and to score a goal in Stuttgart's own game. They got the Dortmund goal, and then in the 92nd minute Wataru Endo scored to keep Stuttgart up and set off wild celebration scenes in the stadium. Rino, congratulations on all of that, and thanks for coming on the show.
Pellegrino Matarazzo:
Hi, Grant. Thanks for having me. Enjoy being here.
Grant Wahl:
So I loved your celebration with the team after Endo's goal. Could you take me through it? How did you experience those last crazy minutes, including even becoming aware of the Dortmund goal?
“As I watched the relegation match last night between Hertha BSC and Hamburg, that was a moment where I was very thankful to be on the couch and drinking a beer. And called several players and talked to them about the moment.” — Rino Matarazzo
Pellegrino Matarazzo:
I must say, this is something that I've never experienced before in my life, it was absolutely extraordinary. When Dortmund scored their second goal, there was a wave of energy from 60,000 fans that just electrified the guys on the pitch. I've never been part of that before. It was unbelievable and hard to describe and put into words. But the energy brought to the guys on the pitch from the fans, this constant sound of hope and will, and come on, guys, score that goal, was really extraordinary.
And of course, after scoring the goal in the 92nd minute, it was just an explosion of emotion, which at that moment you're just kind of on autopilot. You don't know what you're doing anymore. You're just doing it. It's coming from your belly, not from your head, and it's just fantastic. When I look at the scenes myself, I'm reminded of the feeling that I had at that moment, and it was absolutely fantastic.
Grant Wahl:
Have you ever been in a situation before as a coach running on the field to celebrate with your players?
Pellegrino Matarazzo:
Yes. Yes. That's not uncommon, tight situations, tight wins. I remember the first time was even in the second division fighting for promotion, where we turned the game around against Hamburg. 2-0 deficit in the first half, we won the game 3-2 and won on a last-minute goal from Gonzalo Castro. I celebrated as well and sprinting onto the field. This year as well against Augsburg, we turned the game around, we won 3-2. And I think I was praised for the speed in which my long legs carried me to the baseline.
Grant Wahl:
Fantastic. I mean, I was wondering as I was watching all of this, and fans in the stadium coming onto the field, just so happy, and it was such a cool scene to watch on television. Did you even get a chance to speak to your players after all of that? And if you did, what did you say?
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Pellegrino Matarazzo:
To be honest, right after the game was just singing, dancing, drumming in the locker room. There was a sense of you were astonished that we were, I don't know what the right word is, excuse me for my poor English. I actually prepared before this podcast by speaking to our individual trainer, Nate Weiss, who's also an American. I said, "Come on, please, I need to brush up on my English before this podcast." Unfortunately it wasn't enough. But it was hard to grasp. This moment was so big. I think it's bigger than our minds are capable to carry, to hold. And that's the sense I had, like a loss of orientation and not really knowing what just happened because it was so intense.
And of course the lead-up to this game was dramatic. And in the game it was extremely dramatic. And the last five minutes was, like I said before, a crazy moment. So I'm kind of putting the pieces together as the week goes on. And making phone calls and talking to players.
As I watched the game, the relegation match last night between Hertha BSC and Hamburg, that was a moment where I was very thankful to be on the couch and drinking a beer. And called several players and talked to them about the moment. So I've been kind of catching up with the players as the time goes on.
Grant Wahl:
There's something, and I try to explain this sometimes to people in U.S. other sports leagues, because they don't have promotion and relegation. And the sense of relief maybe is slightly different. Is it fair to say that it's slightly different than when you are trying to win a league or win promotion to stave off relegation? I haven't experienced it myself, but as someone who's interested in human experience, human emotion, is that accurate from your perspective?
Pellegrino Matarazzo:
Yes, I would say so. I think relegation battles are usually fueled by fear and how to steer fear and to use fear to bring energy onto the pitch. I think it's a lot about pressure and a different kind of pressure. If you're fighting for promotion or the championship, it's a positive pressure. You have something to win and not something to lose. So I think the challenge is in showing the players the chance that we have, the Bundesliga next season, that's what we're playing for. We're not playing to not play in the second leagues, we're playing to play in the Bundesliga next year. So it's about envisioning the positive and moving forward in a good way.
Grant Wahl:
So there's a really cool video of your family, I think back in the U.S., in real time, reacting to the goal that kept you up and celebrating. Have you seen it?
Pellegrino Matarazzo:
Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen it. My brother has in his garage a security camera, and you see all the flags in the room that he's set up. This is an amazing thing, they call it the arena as well back in Jersey where my brother lives. And a couple games in, he realized, oh, we have this security camera. So every now and then when there's a really great goal to celebrate he'll send it to me on WhatsApp. And I'll take a look at it. And this time somebody posted it. I'm not sure who gave it to be posted. And it just went viral, people seeing it across the world. It's a fantastic moment.
I think my dad tore his back. My brother, Leo, sat down with a bloody nose ... he was bleeding. He doesn't know how. So it was an emotional moment that they also experienced in a sort of ecstasy.
Grant Wahl:
So in the days since, what has the feeling been like for you? What's the mood like in the city of Stuttgart?
Pellegrino Matarazzo:
To be honest, this is the first time in a long time where I have time and space to walk around the city and discover it, enjoy it because we've had the Corona situation and not wanting to take any risks and just be very, very focused on the job. So the last few days I have been able to go out for a walk and drink a coffee. And what I sense is gratefulness.
I enjoy when people come up to me and just say thank you. And I can only return the compliment and say thank you, you guys were unbelievably supportive. The fan base here is very big. And the fact that they never really turned against us this season, despite fighting for relegation for such a long period of time is exceptional, especially for a club like Stuttgart with the history and culture behind it. So I'm also very thankful that they just kept pushing us forward in a positive way game for game. Even away games, we had such an enormous support, 6,000, 3,000, always full to the capacity that was able to be held. And it's been great. It's been great having them behind us.
Grant Wahl:
So your staying up caused Hertha Berlin to go to the relegation playoff that you mentioned against Hamburg. But on April 24, your team had lost to Hertha Berlin. And with just three games left, you were four points behind them. Did it seem unlikely to you at that point that you might still catch them?
Pellegrino Matarazzo:
That game hurt. That game hurt. Losing in Berlin hurt. I think that we had a tough time with the pressure in that game. That was the first game where I sensed such a big discrepancy of what the guys felt before the game and what they delivered on the pitch. Very hot, very motivated before the game. And you just felt the tension in their bones when the whistle blew. So that was a tough game to digest for us because it was such a big game.
I think after that game, we focused on that which we could influence, and that was relegation. Hoping for more, but just the goal being secure 16th place, and then see what happens. And we needed a game to get back. Wolfsburg, we also started slow. It was also a short week. We played on Sunday against Hertha BSC, and Saturday against Wolfsburg, so we had one less day to train, one less day to communicate and get the guys to power. And you sensed that against Wolfsburg, you still sensed the disappointment in the beginning of the game. Worked ourselves into the game, came back, scored the 1-1 towards the end of the game, which was very important for us.
And then we had two games left against Bayern Munich and against Cologne. And we said, okay, guys, it's time to go all in. And we did, showed courage, showed strength in a time where things were insecure. And very proud of the guys for being able to bring that energy onto the field.
Grant Wahl:
Getting a point at Bayern Munich when you really need points is pretty incredible. How did you see that game?
Pellegrino Matarazzo:
Yeah, especially because they lost the week before. They wanted to celebrate their title with their home game. So they were getting a lot of criticism from the media at that time as well, so they wanted to win, they put their best 11 on the pitch. And we knew that going into the game.
But we had hope come into play. Bielefeld had lost their game on Friday, Hertha lost their game on Saturday, which meant if we get at least a point in Munich, then we have a chance for a final match against Cologne on the last day of the season. And that hope, it spread through the team. That we believe in ourselves. That's been the case week after week.
We've always been able to get up from setbacks, big setbacks, deep setbacks, and get back on our feet and fight again. The harder it got, the harder we fought. And just that hope kicking in before the Bayern game, I think it gave us the extra push just to go all in. And we did.
And we had a good start to the game. We went up. Then we had to suffer a bit in the first half where they had a power-play phase, where we were deep in our own half and just defending and trying to clear every ball. And the second half, we had a very, very good second half, where we kept Bayern away from our own goal. We scored also the 2-2, and deservedly, had a lot of chances against Bayern Munich. It was a great game, a great point, and which set up the stage for the final against Cologne.
Grant Wahl:
It's such a long season. I was actually in Leipzig for your game at Leipzig very early in the season. And you lost one of your players to injury, and a long season ahead after that. And you had finished in ninth place last season. And I'm just wondering when you look at this whole season, how stressful was this season for you?
Pellegrino Matarazzo:
Yeah, it was an extraordinary finish to an extraordinary season. I don't know if everyone is aware in the States how long our injury list was in the fall. And the Corona list, we had so many people falling out in the fall where the first 11 was being set on their own. And it was just more about just stabilizing the guys, getting on track. And at the highest point of our injury list, we played the two most important games against Augsburg and Bielefeld. And we lost both of them. So that kind of set us back a bit.
You have the, like I said before, the constant setbacks, the deep setbacks, where you lose games that you should not lose because you're just better than the other team. Where your individual mistakes lead to goals against, or we don't finish our chances. I think just in the second half of the season, our expected goals, we should have scored 11 goals more than we actually did, just in the second half of the season. Which is a big number. Leipzig, who had the same amount of expected goals that we did, scored 22 more goals than we did in just the second half of the season. So it just shows how much we needed to work for each goal and for each point that we did.
And I also think that another challenge was the pressure on this young team. We have a very young team, the youngest team in the league. And to fight against relegation, just steering this fear, with some of the guys, they'd never played Bundesliga before or never been in this situation before, was a challenge in and of itself. And I wouldn't say stressful. I would say it just took a lot of effort. And not just from me as a coach, but from the complete coaching staff to all the guys behind the scenes, every guy on the pitch. The fact that we stood together and had that team spirit like we did, just speaks for the whole club and everyone working for it.
Grant Wahl:
Just to wrap up here, what do you do in these five weeks before July 1 comes and the new season starts again?
Pellegrino Matarazzo:
That's a good question. I'm still working this week with season analysis, just kinds of reflecting on the season and gathering information so that when I go into the break, I have food for thought how I want to plan the next season. But I've been still working this week. I haven't planned vacation yet with my wife or my son, or my dog that we newly acquired, our puppy.
But I am sure that I will just begin to relax starting tomorrow. Probably have some windows where my phone is completely turned off. Of course I will communicate to the most important people when my phone is turned on, because you can't stop working in this job because there's always a reason to be available and you need input. So at some point, go to the beach, relax. I don't know, maybe a little retreat with my son, just get your head off of things and gain distance. And hopefully with enough energy we start the season strong.
Grant Wahl:
Pellegrino Matarazzo is the head coach at Stuttgart, which will be playing in the Bundesliga next season. Congratulations. Thanks for coming on the show.
Pellegrino Matarazzo:
Thank you, Grant. Thank you so much.
Grant - as a Jersey guy - I would have loved to learn more about Materrazo's story. It's so unusual and it hasn't been well covered. Perhaps next time?