The Interview: Pat Noonan
The Interview: Pat Noonan
The first-year Cincinnati head coach on having his team in the MLS playoff race after finishing dead last in three straight seasons
I really like what Pat Noonan is doing with FC Cincinnati. This was a team that finished dead last in the MLS standings the previous three years, and Noonan has them fighting for a spot in the playoffs this season. How do you change a losing culture? How do you start taking advantage of the fan excitement around soccer in Cincinnati? And why don’t more people talk about Noonan’s special New England Revolution teams from his playing days? All of those things and more came up in our interview below.
The entirety of the written interview below is reserved for paid subscribers. As always, you can still get the entire free audio version of my podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to go for your pods.
Grant Wahl:
Our guest now is the head coach of FC Cincinnati. In his first year, Pat Noonan has his team in the MLS playoff race after Cincinnati had finished last in the MLS standings for the previous three years in a row. This is a team that has been fun to watch this season. Pat, congratulations on what you've been doing, and thanks for coming on the show.
Pat Noonan:
Thanks for having me, Grant.
Grant Wahl:
Lots to talk about here, but I'll start by just being straight up and asking: What in your mind have been the keys this season to putting Cincinnati in a position to challenge for the playoffs?
“I want this club, our coaches, our players, the fans, I want to experience holding trophies.” — Pat Noonan
Pat Noonan:
I think a combination of things. I think early on in understanding how we wanted to play was certainly going to be important. It was never going to look perfect and still doesn't look perfect, but what that was going to look like and maybe some of the differences individually and collectively from a previous year or two. I think adding some culture pieces was important, so some experienced MLS players that have been a part of championship teams and had success, I think that was very important. And I think putting players in a position certainly to succeed and bring out the best in their individual talents and how that helps the collective. I thought that was a priority, it was certainly some very talented pieces, and I have to say I'm fortunate to have a very good staff, a support staff around me to help me along the way in my first go-around.
Grant Wahl:
And we're doing this interview on Thursday, August 25. The news today is that Brandon Vazquez has signed a new contract with the club. What's the significance of that? And how would you describe Brandon's role in the team this season?
Pat Noonan:
Well, the significance is we keep a very important piece of our group, somebody that's certainly contributed in many ways to helping our team be in a better position than it was before the year started. So we're very pleased to have rewarded Brandon with a well-deserved contract extension and pay raise. He's an incredible character, something that embodies everything that we want here at the club with his on field performance, with his team-first mentality, with his locker room presence. He's been outstanding, and he's a hungry player.
He's not settling with where he's at. I think that's why he's had the season he has, is because he's looking to improve, he's constantly asking questions of what he can do better, how he can be more efficient with and without the ball. So a lot of credit is on the character and the mentality of Brandon and where he's at in his development and certainly on-field production.
Grant Wahl:
We've got a bit of an unusual situation with the U.S. men's national team. It's a World Cup year, and nobody has really taken the center forward position in a major way for this U.S. team during qualifying. Even though Brandon Vazquez hasn't had time with the national team really, do you think he should make the World Cup team or at least have a really good shot at it?
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Pat Noonan:
I think with the form that he's in and if he continues in this way, he certainly is right there in the conversation. I understand the bias in that comment. You're seeing the production short-term right now with our number nines around the world and scoring goals, Brandon's in that mix. I think you're seeing a lot of players that in that position sense an opportunity in a couple months time, and certainly Brandon's one of them.
So I think, Grant, if he continues in the form that he's in, just in terms of goal scoring alone, because that's such an important part of that position, that his name will continue to be brought up in the coming months. And certainly I think there's still things at the international level that if he wants to make an even stronger case, we can improve on some areas with and without the ball to help continue to make him a stronger player and a more complete player. But I think it would be silly to not have his name involved in the coming months if his form continues.
Grant Wahl:
When a team has had as much losing as Cincinnati had had in the previous three seasons, what did you do when you arrived to say, this is going to be a new culture inside this team?
Pat Noonan:
The message early on was to try to create a belief, but a belief that was realistic and not giving these players and this group, staff members, everybody involved, a false sense of reality. It was not going to be perfect early on, we're going to lose games, we're still trying to build relationships and figure each other out. This is our first go at it with our particular group, so there has to be a level of open-mindedness in terms of new ideas and failures short term as we work through some things, whether it was, again, how we want to play, whether it was expectations and accountability.
We talked a lot about those expectations and accountability in the early days, and I think players along the way deserve a lot of credit for being willing to take on new information, new ideas and being challenged in ways where they were going to be uncomfortable at times. But I was always going to be honest with them as far as what I felt in trying to not just look at wins and losses, but how are we progressing and improving as a group with the understanding that winning is important.
Winning is important for this club based on what you said, the previous seasons and not having success. So in this early phase, how can we find results when we're not at our best, when our opponents won't be at their best? And I think despite starting the season slow, we were 2-5 after seven games, the players still believed, we still believed, I think we were able to find ways to win games that put us on a stretch of four wins and it got us above .500, and I think early on that was really important in terms of the belief and the confidence of the group.
And so we're sitting here today still .500. So I think there's been a lot of improvement in different ways than just the results. But early on, it was just going to have to be that everybody was willing to take on new ideas and new information, but the importance of trust in the process. You hear that all the time, but if we're going to do anything special, if we're going to have a season that's just not about subtle improvements, if we want to make big improvements, then there has to be this willingness to be open to new ideas and failures, but find ways to push each other and find ways to create an environment where we could survive moments of struggle, and I think we got that from the players in different ways and some slower than others. Because I think we're seeing progress from individuals that early on really struggled, and so those players buying in more to certain things has helped our group become more complete. Again, putting results aside, I think we're much stronger now than we were even two months ago.
Grant Wahl:
Chris Albright is the general manager there. How would you describe the relationship you and Chris have built over the years and how does it work day to day now?
Pat Noonan:
Well, there's a level of trust that most, I would say, first-time GMs and coaches don't have. Our previous working relationship was strong, and so we were aligned in so many things before this even started. But that helped us hit the ground running in decision making, whether it was players to fit a certain style or culture pieces, those conversations were just easier and quicker and more efficient early on.
And so that previous working relationship was so vital to things moving along early in ways where we could find maybe success quicker than expected, and the day to day is he's right next to me, we're talking all the time, whether it's about training, whether about our players, whether it's about how we can improve the roster. It's daily, and it's very organic, and I certainly appreciate that component of it, because there's no BS with Chris. We can be up front with each other, we don't have to try to please each other, and so I think that really helps in the day to day, and again the efficiency of how we work.
Grant Wahl:
Before you took this job, you had worked as an assistant to Bruce Arena and Jim Curtin. Are there any particular aspects of how they approach things that you've admired and maybe taken on a bit in your own work as a head coach?
Pat Noonan:
Yeah. Good question. Different models, different philosophies, but what I will say is, both coaches have a way of dealing with pressure. This is a high-pressure environment, when you look at just the expectations, wins, losses, how the league has grown and now, how we're perceived as coaches, as players, as a league.
And to see how they managed the day to day when things weren't going well, and then that's not just wins and losses, that's behind the scenes, all the stuff that you just don't see or hear about, they managed it in a really impressive way to kind of put out fires before it got out of control and manage the players, manage their staff in ways where everybody was always moving in the same direction, and I think that's something that can be said for Bruce and for Jim's teams. I was in both of those environments and we were all moving in the same direction, we all had the same goals and we wanted to achieve success together, and I think both managers did that in a really impressive way.
Grant Wahl:
You were a player on some great New England Revolution teams in particular that I still don't think get enough respect in this league today. What do you remember as some of the most special things about those Revolution teams?
Pat Noonan:
The bonds. The bond in the locker room. I don't think there's many that are stronger. And the league was different then, Grant, this was an American league. And a lot of us came through the college system, and so there were a lot of similarities in our pathway to the pros. But that particular stretch, I got there in 2003 and left after the end of the 2007 season. Coming into work every day was so much fun. We loved competing, and we also were so competitive that we fought a lot, but that was part of the environment at that time, and you could have fights daily and we would be laughing about it in the locker room after practice. Or somebody would be winding you up, if I got into it with Jay Heaps, somebody was winding one of us up to see if we could get it going longer, and I think that's what made it such a special group.
We really looked out for each other, on and off the field, in ways where you could see the chemistry on the field and the way we played the game, and that's certainly a product of Stevie Nicol and his management as well, Paul Mariner. It was a special group, and we talk about it all the time. A lot of those players are still in touch, and it's because we had a great connection in the locker room and on the field, and the unfortunate part is we didn't win more championships. Because I think, like you said, maybe it's not recognized because there's not enough titles to back it up, we made three MLS Cups in a row and didn't win any of them. We won the one U.S. Open Cup, and I think that group should have more trophies to talk about, so I think that's probably why it's not recognized more than it could be, but it was a special time certainly.
Grant Wahl:
You're also a St. Louis guy. Originally, St. Louis has always been one of the historic soccer cities in the United States, finally getting an MLS team next season. What sort of influence did growing up in the soccer culture of St. Louis have on you?
Pat Noonan:
Well, I would say in the later stages of my youth, I could sense and then feel just how special that environment was. Because early on it was just, I love to play sports, I loved to compete, it wasn't just soccer, I was playing basketball, I was playing baseball, anything where I could be out with my buddies competing, but then you start to see it at the club level and then really in high school, and I know people talk about this all the time, it was, "where'd you go to high school?"
And our high school soccer culture was special, it was neat, we would get real crowds at our games, and I was really impressed at that time in the Metro Catholic Conference and in the competition we had, and just how neat the game-day experience was at a level where you wouldn't expect it. And so I think that helped drive the desire to want to do it past high school, and it was competitive games, it was talked about in the papers and at school, so you were kind of the big guy on campus, in ways where if you were a part of the varsity soccer team, that mattered, and I think that was pretty cool. And so again, it was me being competitive and being able to grow up in such a competitive soccer environment.
Grant Wahl:
I'm really looking forward to having St Louis in the league next year. I grew up in Kansas City in the eighties and was into indoor soccer and hated the St. Louis Steamers, it was a nice rivalry, so I'm looking forward to having St Louis in the league. In terms of the soccer culture of Cincinnati, that's a different story. I mean, St. Louis has this very historic soccer culture. What have you learned about this soccer culture that's developed now in Cincinnati, Ohio?
Pat Noonan:
There's a lot of pride in the local teams, the local players, anybody that has roots in Cincinnati and represents this town, you could see the pride that it brings to the fans. Obviously, if you look back at just the run in 2017, and again, from an outsider's perspective, I remember watching that run and thinking, "Man, look at this fan base and look at the support that team is getting,” and I think that's what drove the success on the field, certainly, as well as it becoming an MLS franchise. That's created by your fans and by the town and the appreciation for soccer and for their sports teams, and so that was the first taste I got of it, and then now being entrenched in it, it's special, and the scary thing is it can be even more. I think, early on, when you experienced the game day environment, after three seasons of not having success, you could feel the energy in the building was, "Ah, what's it going to look like? Is this team going to be any good? Are we going to win games?"
Where now, heading into a very important game against Columbus, along the way, it's felt different in our home games, and certainly winning games helps, and there's a sense of belief, I think, from the fan base that we're moving in the right direction and their support's been incredible. I'm very fortunate, and we are very fortunate, to have a community and fans that care so much about their team and have been by this team’s side, even in moments of real struggle. So hopefully we can reward them in ways where that fan base continues to grow, and we can create an environment where it's tops in the league.
Grant Wahl:
Two more questions for you, one short term, one longer term. What do you want from your Cincinnati team the rest of the way here in the stretch run to the playoffs to try and get you over the line? What in particular do you want to see?
Pat Noonan:
I would like to see us manage games and situations that show a real belief that we can be a playoff team. I think one of the struggles has been game management, closing out games, closing out halves, how we respond when we score, concede a goal, we can still be better in those ways. Which means I can be better, and so as a group, how can we create more belief and confidence that we deserve to be here, and we should be winning these games? Because I think if we can get over the hump in that regard, we're going to be playing the meaningful games at the end of the year. So that's certainly something that we can improve on, taking into account the first 26 games of the year, and as we close out the year, for me it's how can we position ourselves to be playing in the playoffs?
And I think the game management one is the biggest factor right now, because I think we position ourselves in enough games to get points, whether we've been playing well, whether we haven't been playing well. If we can get that right, and if we can get wins, we're at a point now where we're right in the mix, and being a playoff team is certainly achievable. And I want that hunger from our group to expect to be there because I think it would be really special for this club and for these fans and for this team, for our group, to be competing in the playoffs from where we started.
Grant Wahl:
Last question's even sort of longer term, which is, keeping in mind that any team that gets into the playoffs has a chance to win the whole thing, I get it, but how do you take the next step even higher in future seasons to where you are in the regular season at the top of the standing?
Pat Noonan:
Yeah, I mean, going to the ultimate goals, holding trophies, Grant, I want this club, our coaches, our players, the fans, I want to experience holding trophies. That's why I do this, is to experience, not for myself, but in the team setting, being a champion. And so in the future that's certainly the ultimate goal, but I think in how we get there certainly there's the goals of not just being a playoff team, but hosting a playoff game. For the fans, that's important, and the more you can host the better chance you're going to have playing in front of your home fans, in the playoffs. But not just league play. Can we be a team that's competing in the Champions League?
I think that would be an important step in a goal that has us now not just thinking of league play, but on this continent how can we be a top team? And so I do think it's achievable. With our ownership group, the support we have, their willingness to provide the resources to help us be successful, these are attainable goals. But certainly how do we get there becomes a challenge, and I think those are things in the future that I would love to see for FCC, but we know that there's a lot of work that has to be done to achieve those goals, but I do think that is realistic.
Grant Wahl:
Pat Noonan is the head coach of FC Cincinnati. Pat, thanks for coming on the show.
Pat Noonan:
Thanks for having me, Grant.