The Interview: Pablo Zabaleta
The Former Man City and Argentina Right Back on the Modern Fullback Role, What Makes Pep and Messi Special, the Last Day of the 2011-12 Season, Playing in a World Cup Final and Much More
The first time I ever saw Pablo Zabaleta play was the same day I first saw Lionel Messi play: June 11, 2005, when the U.S. upset Argentina in the FIFA Under-20 World Cup. (Chad Barrett scored for a Sigi Schmid-coached U.S. team that included Freddy Adu, Sacha Kljestan and Benny Feilhaber.) For some reason, the Argentine coach chose not to start Messi or Sergio Agüero that day, but they righted the ship in time for Argentina to win the tournament. Zabaleta was the captain of that Argentina team, and he went on to have a phenomenal 19-year pro career with Manchester City, West Ham, Espanyol and San Lorenzo that included two Premier League titles, FA Cup and League Cup crowns, a Copa del Rey title, a 2008 Olympic gold medal and an appearance in the 2014 World Cup final.
The entirety of the written interview below is reserved for paid subscribers. As always, you can still get the entire free audio version of my podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to go for your pods.
Grant Wahl:
Our guest now is Pablo Zabaleta, the former star right back from Argentina and Manchester City, among other clubs. Pablo, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming on the show.
Pablo Zabaleta:
Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.
Grant Wahl:
What brings you to New York?
Pablo Zabaleta:
Well, I'm here as a Man City ambassador. Obviously, we've been doing a lot of different stuff with the club. We've been in some schools with the kids, playing some football, and now at the Puma store, doing some signing sessions, pictures with the fans. That's always good for the club, and as an ex-football player to come and represent the club I love, so it's been great so far.
Grant Wahl:
What do you like about coming to New York City?
Pablo Zabaleta:
Well, it’s a special place. I'm a huge fan of New York. Every time I've been here to play games or to do some activities in the city, it's been great. A lot of activities to do and people from all around the world. I've been once watching a basketball game. Last night, we tried with hockey.
Grant Wahl:
Nice.
Pablo Zabaleta:
Yeah, it's different. It's something that we don't have the opportunity when we live in Europe. We don't see much of this. Obviously on TV, but it's different when you are live, and that's the only thing when you are in America, that you try to watch these kinds of games.
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Grant Wahl:
So Manchester City is once again leading the Premier League, though Liverpool isn't too far behind. What has stood out to you about this season at Manchester City?
Pablo Zabaleta:
Well, it's going to be tough. I mean, the title race is very close now. Liverpool is only six points behind, and I think they have a game in hand as well, so probably the two best teams in the league. You know, both of them playing really good football at the moment, both of them competing at their best, so it's going to be a really entertaining end of the season for sure, and I obviously expect Man City to continue playing in the same way. The Champions League is one of those competitions that probably the fans, and players, and Pep [Guardiola] and all his staff would like to again reach the final, but yeah, the Premier League is so tight at the moment. It's going to be really, really good until the end of the season.
Grant Wahl:
So you played for one season under Pep at Manchester City. What did you learn about him that made him different from other managers you played for?
Pablo Zabaleta:
Well, he's a really good coach, I have to say, even if I spent only one season with Pep. He's one of those managers that for me is above the rest, just because in the way he coached the team on and off the field. I mean, tactically, he's just a genius. He always wants to have control of the ball, always thinking on attacking, and trying to entertain the fans, and that's the only way he understands football, and you can really see how the team has been playing in the last few years. It's been a joy to watch Man City playing football.
But also off the field, I think he can really inspire the players in the way he talks, and he has so much passion about football. He speaks two or three different languages, so it's so easy for him to communicate with all the players. Yeah, it's been a really good experience. I always say it was a shame that he came when I was nearly 33. I wish I was a lot younger. I probably would have spent a few more years with him, but I have to say one of those managers that for me it's been a great experience to work with.
Grant Wahl:
When we talk about modern football, a lot of that has to do with how fullbacks are used in the modern game, and Pep in particular, but other managers too, seems like they've really revolutionized the fullback position. Do you agree with that?
Pablo Zabaleta:
Yeah, I agree.
Grant Wahl:
What do you see?
Pablo Zabaleta:
That's true. Probably back in the old days, the fullbacks, they were more defensive minded, right? These days, being a fullback means that you have to be all the time running down the flank, attacking or supporting the attack every single time. You can really see how Pep brings the fullbacks on the inside to create an extra man in the middle. And yeah, probably these days as a fullback, you need to understand how you can read a game, and it's not just about defending anymore.
As I said before, you need to be clever, and support attack time after time, overlapping runs as well, especially for the big clubs, for the big teams. And you also need pace these days, because obviously you have offensive and defensive transitions. These days the fullbacks are a lot quicker, as well, so during 90 minutes you have to do both jobs. You need to be good in both ends of the field.
Grant Wahl:
Who are your favorite fullbacks in world football?
Pablo Zabaleta:
I would say probably from my time as a footballer, for me, [Javier] Zanetti was one of them that's Argentinian. I watch a lot of games of him when he was at Inter, for me he was a legend. He is a legend and I grew up watching him playing football, but I also have to say that Philipp Lahm, I don't know, Dani Alves, Maicon, they were top. You don't really see word-class fullbacks, but these three or four guys from my era as a footballer have been probably the best ones.
Grant Wahl:
If you had to pick one?
Pablo Zabaleta:
I would say Zanetti, because he was maybe technically not as good as Dani Alves or Philipp Lahm, but I loved the way he was running up and down during 90 minutes. You know? Big legs. He was so good, and also he's playing a few games in the national team as well. So I really love Pupi, I am a big fan of him.
Grant Wahl:
You played professionally in England, Spain and Argentina. What would you say about those football cultures and how they're different, how they're similar?
Pablo Zabaleta:
Well, as you know in Argentina we're mad about football. Fans are passionate about this sport, and that's something that then when you come to Europe, you can really see also that, especially in England, it was very similar. I remember going away from home how the fans traveled to support a team, and that's something that you really love as a footballer, because the atmospheres of the stadiums are great, and you're always playing in front of a full stadium.
This is always what you expect as a football player. England, I will say, I met England as a lovely place to play football and to enjoy life as well, but for me the Premier League is one of those competitions that once you're there you never want to leave, because there is so much passion about football.
Grant Wahl:
A few years ago, I wrote an article on the fifth anniversary of the last day of the season in 2012, when Man City won the title on that amazing day that you scored…
Pablo Zabaleta:
Yeah, the forgotten goal!
Grant Wahl:
Yes! I spoke to a bunch of different people about that day. Unfortunately, I didn't speak to you. What are your memories of that day?
Pablo Zabaleta:
Well, I will say that across my years as a football player, that day is probably up there as one of the best of my life. Why? Because in the way that we won the Premier League, it is true that I scored the first goal, nobody remembers it. Everyone remembers Agüero's. But Man City and Man United going into the final day of the season, both playing to win the league. I remember that on TV they split the screen, and they were showing Manchester United fans celebrating, because we were losing 2-1 against QPR, and we needed two goals in the last four or five minutes. And it was a crazy day, [Edin] Dzeko scored a great header from a corner, and then Sergio was there at the right moment at the right time to score the third goal and gave us a chance to win the first Premier League medal. So it was a crazy end of the game. It was one of those moments that I have really good memories from that day.
Grant Wahl:
You played in a lot of big games over the years. You played in a World Cup final in 2014, which, I guess, I would argue is the biggest game in the world.
Pablo Zabaleta:
Yes.
Grant Wahl:
What is that like as a player, emotionally? What were you thinking about heading into playing in a World Cup final?
Pablo Zabaleta:
Well, I remember the night before it was tough to get proper sleep, because as you said before as a football player iIt's one of those games that you dream to play. It was very special, because it was Brazil, very close to our country. A lot of Argentinian fans around, playing in the Maracana Stadium.
Yeah, it was a shame that we lost, but all I can say that as a football player it was a great experience to be involved in a World Cup final. Big memories as well from that game. Now I’ve got like a small museum in my house, and every time I see pictures of that game it's something I'm very proud of. I’ve got two boys, and every time you got to chance to say, "Look, Daddy has been in a World Cup final, and that was amazing."
Grant Wahl:
Argentina won the Copa América last year. I'm not hiding anything. Argentina is my second country, I was very happy that day.
Pablo Zabaleta:
That's great.
Grant Wahl:
What do you think about Argentina's chances in the World Cup this year in what most of us expect will be [Lionel] Messi's last World Cup?
Pablo Zabaleta:
Well, if you could really see at the [Copa América] final everyone went to Messi and celebrated that title with him, because that's true that we lost three consecutive finals. You know? The World Cup and then two Copa Américas from penalties against Chile, and it was quite tough. But Messi won the Copa América, Argentina as well after so many years, so it is a year that we have the World Cup and it's been 29 games, I think, Argentina without losing. So that invites to believe and to be positive that hopefully it's the year that Argentina has a chance to win the World Cup. That would be amazing. Imagine Messi, I don't know how many years he’s got left in football. He's getting older, and we know how special that will be for Messi and for the team, and obviously for the whole country, because we love football. I wish all the best to the team in Qatar.
Grant Wahl:
I have a last couple questions for you here, but what I like to do with very accomplished players is to ask them some things about their careers. So, for instance, what did you achieve in football that you are the most proud of, and why?
Pablo Zabaleta:
What you mean in football? Like winning something, or in general?
Grant Wahl:
For you, the thing in your career that you're most proud of.
Pablo Zabaleta:
Well, I always say I've been very lucky to be a professional player, because a lot of people would like to become a footballer, and I've been playing alongside so many great players. But I will say that playing at different stadiums. As a child, you always watch football, and you're thinking, "Wow, I would love to be one day playing in one of those stadiums." That's something that after football you realize how lucky we have been, or something like that. I will say, even when Messi... I'm from the same generation he was... I was the captain of the under-20 team [that won the 2005 Under-20 World Cup] when Messi came for the first time, and so imagine that was something very special as well. I will say that moment is probably up there as one of the greatest moments in my football career.
Grant Wahl:
Who was the player you most admired in your career?
Pablo Zabaleta:
Well, I was born in 1985, Argentina won the World Cup in '86 in Mexico, I was too young, but I think we all grew up watching Maradona. Diego was something else. He was like a god for everybody in Argentina. I will say, I just kept watching videos of Maradona playing football, because it would take a long, long time, probably, to see something like that. He was a special character as well, and probably that's one of the greatest moments as a child I got from Maradona. He was an idol for me when I was young.
Grant Wahl:
Two more very quick questions. One, who is the best player you've ever played against?
Pablo Zabaleta:
[Eden] Hazard, probably. Yeah, he always gave me very tough times. When he was at Chelsea, he was really good. Not the Hazard of Real Madrid these days. I remember playing against him, it was a nightmare. He was too good, very quick, very skillful, very sharp, and as a fullback it has always been hard. Also, I remember when I was playing in Spain for Espanyol of Barcelona, prime Ronaldinho-
Grant Wahl:
Yeah.
Pablo Zabaleta:
...he was also so, so difficult. So I will say these two players probably was one of the most difficult players to play against.
Grant Wahl:
Lastly, who was your favorite teammate of all time?
Pablo Zabaleta:
I would say it's Sergio Agüero, because we spent seven years together at Man City. We both come from the same country, now he's living in Barcelona. He's my neighbor, so we've been spending a lot of time together. So I will say that probably Sergio was one of my best teammates.
Grant Wahl:
Pablo Zabaleta, thank you for coming on the show.
Pablo Zabaleta:
Okay. Thank you, it was a pleasure.