The Interview: Martin Tyler
One of the Greatest to Ever Do It on the 10th Anniversary of Agüero's Goal, His Story with Vin Scully and Bill Buckner, the Importance of Watching the Game and Much More
The great Martin Tyler is 76 years old and still remarkably productive. When I spoke to him last week, he had just traveled home from calling the Manchester United-Brentford game six hours earlier and was getting ready to broadcast the Real Madrid-Manchester City Champions League game the next day (which would turn out to be an epic). This week Tyler will be part of the official festivities organized by Man City to commemorate the 10th anniversary of Sergio Agüero’s stoppage-time winner to win the league in 2011-12 that Tyler so memorably called. It was an honor to interview the man who may be the greatest of all time.
The entirety of the written interview below is reserved for paid subscribers. As always, you can still get the entire free audio version of my podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to go for your pods.
Grant Wahl:
Our guest now is one of the world's very best soccer broadcasters. Martin Tyler calls games for Sky Sports in the UK and the World Cup for SBS in Australia. He has been broadcasting games at the highest level for nearly five decades. Martin, it's great to speak to you. Thanks for coming on the show.
Martin Tyler:
It's my pleasure. Those five decades have flown past, I can tell you.
Grant Wahl:
It's absolutely fantastic to have you with us, and you have a lot of fans in the United States. You have, for me, one of the most recognizable voices in world football. We're entering the month of May now. It has been a long season. Do you have to do much to take care of your voice this time of year?
Martin Tyler on what he remembers most about his Agüero goal call: “That I didn't mess it up. Every commentator or broadcaster listening to this will understand what I mean. Because it's instinctive, reactive, totally unscripted, and just how you felt at that moment, and how I hope everybody else felt that it was sync with the sense of amazement at the game, at the ground, and generally around the world watching football.”
Martin Tyler:
No. I think there was a moment about three decades ago that I realized that... I've never been trained. I'm not a thespian. And I'd just done it. And that voice actually is something that does have to be treated with a little bit more respect than probably I was treating it. So I went to see a specialist who gave me... I said, "How do you do this?" She said, "You're not doing it like actors do. You should be speaking on the out breath, and getting that to protect your voice from anything." And she actually said, "If you do this, your voice will never let you down."
And obviously, there's been illness I've had, COVID-19. I missed a week's work earlier this year because of that. But by and large, it keeps going. I always say to people that I shout "Goal" for a living and I've been able to do that. So that little tweak all those years ago was important. And I think it taught me to respect the part of the body that allows me to broadcast.
Grant Wahl:
Are there elements of broadcasting a game, you've been doing this for a long time, are there elements that are timeless? Are there certain ways that you approach calling a game today that you were doing basically the same way when you started?
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Martin Tyler:
Yes, 100%. I think you identify the players. That's the first thing you do. And you have to put work in. It was very hard work at the beginning. There were no video recordings, really. There were no online advantages of being able to just press a button and watch a player or watch a game and even check how he pronounces his name, which I know is a big issue, and rightly so.
I take it very seriously. I always believe that you pronounce the way that the player would like. I always say, "What would your mum say?" That kind of stuff. And sometimes they go, "Well, you can say it this way, or you could say it that way," but I always try and get to the bottom of it. It's not always 100% accurate, but from my point of view that's something I've been doing for years.
“I've always said if there's words that I haven't been able to utter in my broadcasting period for nearly five decades since I started working, ‘England have won the World Cup’ are probably the words that I would like to have broadcast.” — Martin Tyler
And I think basically getting some sort of information that's relevant to the match. You’ve got to remember that now, I broadcast a game last night, and there's probably 20 cameras on it. When I started, there were four. That was basically it. And no slow-motion replays in play, that used to be added afterwards, because these games weren't always live. But fundamentally it's still the same. Watch the game, love the game.
Think that perhaps I should put it the other way around. Love the game, then watch it, and then believe in yourself to be able to find the right kind of pathway. It's not an exact science. I'd be foolish to pretend I get it right all the time. And I guess the skill is trying to get it right more often than you get it wrong.
Grant Wahl:
Well, we're talking on Tuesday morning UK time. I'm in Seattle, so it's right around midnight on Monday night here where I am for right now. You just did a game last night where you are. And I'm wondering what's your day-to-day workload like these days?
Martin Tyler:
Well, it's probably a bit pretentious to say it, but I like to think I'm a rhythm commentator, where I like to do plenty of games. I think it carries on from one to the next if you are doing it every two or three days. I've got another game, UK time, I think Tuesday around 8:15 am. I've got another game for 8 PM on Wednesday, a Champions League game. And so I have to get ready for that, and that's my day today. And I'm glad you got me up early. I need to get up early. I got back from Manchester about six hours ago from broadcasting on the world feed for Manchester United against Brentford.
It's a way of life, to be honest with you. I can't differentiate really from doing this and anything else. My family's very important to me and obviously takes top priority. But the truth is they buy into what I do. They love the sport. My daughter's an actor. Really, we talk a lot about voice, broadcasting and performing. And I always say, "I'm a broadcaster. You're a performer. There is a subtle difference." There is some performance in what we do, and it's a nice thing to be able to share with a member of your family, to be honest.
Grant Wahl:
You're doing the Champions League game on Wednesday night. So that's going to be Man City against Real Madrid. Has it changed at all during COVID when you call a game like that? Are you traveling or are you doing that from a studio? How does that work for you?
Martin Tyler:
I think that's the mystery of the business. The traveling in COVID has been difficult. Traveling outside the UK has been difficult. Traveling in the UK has been... We've been very, very lucky. We've been asked, Sky Sports, all the commentators that they have in their stable. We thought probably that when it resumed, that Project Restart, that we would end up with doing it off monitors and sitting in our base camp in Isleworth. And they have done that with a lot of the studio, the presenters, the guests you see on the screen. But the commentators and the co-commentator, we've been allowed to go to games all through the pandemic pretty much since the restart. So it's been an unbelievable privilege in a very difficult period of history to be able to do that.
It's been a little bit odd in the grounds where of course with no fans being there sometimes, and goals scored particularly by the away team, it's just those in the dugout who would cheer, really. And you just hear, "Was that goal?" Yes, probably the expression on the faces of both sets of players tell you it was. But it wasn't as easy as it is when you've obviously got 70,000 people, like I had in Manchester last night, you knew it was coming back to normal. It's obviously been a much wider issue than the sport that we love, but because of the sport that we love, those concessions meant a huge amount to me as an older person, not suffering from confinement and isolation. In fact, when I was given my first three games in a batch after the Project Restart, I did get a call from the Sky doctor. And I thought, "Oh no, he's looked at my birth certificate. This is going to be difficult."
And I was ready to retaliate. I got my retaliation in first when the call came. But all he was phoning and with proper consideration, which I now totally respect and should have done the moment I picked up the phone, but I have to say I didn't, was that, "You've got to drive everywhere. You've got to drive on your own. And I see on your schedule, you've got to go to Manchester and then come back again. You've got another game two days later, quite close in London, but then you go back up to Liverpool and back again. Can you do that?" And I went, "Yeah, and hopefully I will be able to do it well," and I was able to do it well. So yeah, I wouldn't want to emphasize the difficulties in the change. I would just say how lucky we were as broadcasters in a relatively small country of course, to be able to get about with this.
Grant Wahl:
This particular season, what will you remember the most from this particular season?
Martin Tyler:
That's a very good question. I always believe in looking forward, we've talked about my next assignment. I think looking back is something you do when you finish. And I don't want to quite be in that state yet. But to answer your question, I think the rivalry between Manchester City and Liverpool, which is not new, but relatively new, I suppose, three or four years. The level of play, the level of wanting to win, the consistent competition, relentless attitudes to get the result and the job done, I think that's been extraordinary.
I mean, we're blessed in this country. They are leaving the others a little bit in their wake, but it's better two teams doing that than one, which is often the way in other countries. So I'm proud of the sense of competition that we have all the way down the football pyramid, from the Premier League elite down through our non-league system, which I've been connected with in various guises since I was eight years old, when I went to watch a non-league game. So I think they are so special. They are so special. The managers define it, I think, and their total reluctance to accept anything but excellence is amazing, and it should be valued and treasured. And we try to do that as we go along.
Grant Wahl:
So it's just about the 10th anniversary of your memorable call of Sergio Agüero's title-winning stoppage-time goal for Manchester City in 2012. I spoke to you five years ago about it for a story I wrote for Sports Illustrated, and I can't believe five more years have passed. What still stands out to you about that game and how you called the Agüero goal?
Martin Tyler:
That I didn't mess it up. Every commentator or broadcaster listening to this will understand what I mean. Because it's instinctive, reactive, totally unscripted, and just how you felt at that moment, and how I hope everybody else felt that it was sync with the sense of amazement at the game, at the ground, and generally around the world watching football. It is 10 years on May 13. There is a reunion, and I've been honored by being asked to go to the Manchester City reunion. And I know a lot of the players that were part of it are coming back, so it'll be great.
I mean, I feel a little bit of a fraud being asked to... I mean, I didn't touch the ball in the whole 90 minutes I seem to remember, much as though I would've liked to have done. So yeah, to be associated with it has been another nice privilege, really. There's not a football match that I go to, and I go to a lot, that people don't ask me about it or ask me to do it. It's not easy to do that.
I have a phrase, "And it's live." I can do that for people, but doing the Agüero call is something that's only produced by the great man himself and the great situation he found himself in, and his team found himself in. I mean, they were supposed to win the game, weren't they? They were supposed to win the game quite easily. And as much as you can never win a Premier League game easily, but it was a true real-life drama, and I was lucky to be the narrator, if you like.
Grant Wahl:
You mentioned it was unscripted. Has there ever been anything that you have scripted in advance? Or is that taboo? Or how does a broadcaster like you look at something like that?
Martin Tyler:
I script the team news every game I do, because we only have a certain amount of time for it. On Sky Sports, we have the team graphics done through the system to play. So you only have a few seconds on each goalkeeper, back four, whatever it is, through the system of play. And so that's always scripted, because to get that wrong, the game would be five minutes into its action if we hadn't wrapped that up in the appropriate time. So that's scripted.
I have notes of details, but not notes in lines. No, taboo is too strong a word for it. But if you believe you can find the words more times than not, then you trust your instincts, really. And one of the reasons I think that play-by-play guys go on for so long. And Vin Scully obviously was somebody I met once. That was the case at a World Series back in the '80s. But you can't do the job 100% perfectly, it's just impossible. But your mind tells you, "Oh yeah, I've got to try. I've got to keep trying." And that's the search for perfection that carries us all forward, really.
I don't know how many games I do a season, let's say 100. Probably two am I thinking I got close. I got the right points across at the right time. But the anarchy of it is that you start to make a point that's not exactly to do with what's happening on the field, and you think it's the right time to drop it in. And then somebody whacks the ball 60 yards, somebody else controls it, smashes it in the net, and you're three-quarters of the way through your clever point. And it's far from clever, in fact, it's a nightmare, and you've got to try and get yourself out of that into, "Oh, what a brilliant goal." You know?
So that's the challenge. You know you're going to come away thinking, "I wish I'd said that. I wish I hadn't said that." And you have to have a mechanism in your head, in your psyche to deal with that, because it's a wonderful job, but it comes with some sleepless nights, shall we say.
Grant Wahl:
The Premier League in the last decade has become far and away the biggest domestic league in Europe. What do you think it is about the Premier League that has caused that popularity?
Martin Tyler:
Well, I think English football was popular before around the world. There wasn't the mechanism, there wasn’t the technology to do it. But in the '80s, I was doing a game for Worldwide Soccer, I think it was called, which was broadcast three o'clock on a Saturday. It couldn't be broadcast in the UK, and it was sent around the world. And I think a lot of the Scandinavian countries took it, and the levels of support from those sort of eras, but youngsters who've now become middle-aged men and still follow those teams, who still come over. Gosh, there were a lot of Danes at Manchester United last night, coming to pay tribute to Christian Eriksen, and of course Thomas Frank and the other Danes that are in the setup at Brentford.
So I've always felt it's a value-for-money approach. The game gives you constant action from first whistle to last. And very few games now manage from an hour on to, oh, we'll settle for 2-0, even if we're losing, we'll settle for losing 2-0. I do think some countries in some eras, I'm not saying now necessarily, but that has been a case that rather waters down the product.
And the Premier League of course is an amalgam of the clubs, the clubs own them, really. And we've had 50 of them. Brentford are the 50th team. 50 teams in 30 years. And I think that shows a certain level of democracy, and the teams that come up, they don't always... Probably one concern at the moment is the teams are going up and coming back down again a bit too regularly. Fulham are just coming up for the third time in three successive seasons in the Championship. And Watford and Norwich have gone straight back down again. So I think that's a bit of concern.
But generally, value for money, action, great crowd noise, creating atmosphere for those watching it from thousands of miles away. And you can get your merchandise. That's something that was learned from the USA. And I can remember going around to some of the NASL franchises back in the '70s. And coming home with one or two bits of gear that you wouldn't normally have been able to get here, really. Replica shirts are relatively new in my lifespan, not for people like you. But I think the marketing has added to the quality on the field. And we've got a great package.
Grant Wahl:
You mentioned you had met Vin Scully. And I do have a follow-up question there because he's obviously a legend in the United States in broadcasting. Your stature globally is very Scully-like. What were the circumstances of you meeting Vin Scully? You said at a World Series. Were you working and happened to come into contact with him, or some other thing?
Martin Tyler:
Yeah, there were times in the '80s when the game on television was under a certain amount of threat from strikes from technicians. So I sort of grabbed any other kind of work that was available. And I mentioned the '70s being around. I was a single man in the '70s, and the USA was the place to go. And I needed a reason to go, and the NASL was a great reason to go. And I can remember seeing Bobby Moore, the great, late Bobby Moore at a game and thinking, "Well, I could go back and maybe even speak to the expenses guy saying, 'Oh, well, look, I spent an evening with Bobby Moore. Bought him a few beers.'" And so therefore I justified getting a flight from Heathrow to New York and beyond.
So I'd seen some baseball when I was over. I liked it. I'm a big cricket fan as well, and obviously there were similarities. And I got asked if I would like to cover it for Channel 4 in this country a World Series. On the air. I went, "Well, yeah." And we did most of it from London, so I could do my commentaries and come back to London, do the links. The games weren't live.
So anyway, they said, "Well, you're going out now. You're going to go, and you've got to do some bits with the players." And I said, "I can't do the players in the World Series." "Oh, no. You’ll do it. That's the USA way. Don't worry." Vin Scully is a great man, obviously, met him just in passing, and it was wonderful to hear his voice close quarters. We meet a lot of famous people in our sports, but broadcasting legends, he was, even then... I mean, I'm going back, this was mid-'80s. Was it Bill Buckner that let the ball go past first base? Was it?
Grant Wahl:
1986.
Martin Tyler:
That's the one. That's when I was there. I was there that night.
Grant Wahl:
Wow.
Martin Tyler:
Caused me great problems, because I was ready to run on with my camera. And of course it went to game seven, but I was due at Derby County versus somebody in the League Cup. So I had to go home and I never stayed for Game 7. So he messed up my schedule. I know he messed a lot of people's lives up.
Grant Wahl:
You and the entire city of Boston, my friend.
Martin Tyler:
Yeah. So I had to go home and we did Game 7 in London. And I did it as I'd done probably Games 2, 3, and 4. I never saw the players because we were kept behind a curtain, ready to run on. And they went, "Ah." So there's a little bit of trivia, U.S. trivia for you, but I was there.
Grant Wahl:
I was not expecting to talk about that topic with you in this interview, so I like that you shared that with me. Thank you. Just a couple more quick questions, and I really appreciate you taking the time. There's a World Cup later this year in November and December, of all times of the year to have one. And you're going to be working it. If you had to pick one World Cup that was your favorite to broadcast, which one would it be and why?
Martin Tyler:
The next one, because it means somebody's asked me to do it. No, that's not the right answer, but I feel that. I suppose the first one. For a broadcaster, it's like the players being picked for the squad. I was very inexperienced. The 1978 World Cup came in less than four years since my first broadcast, so I was really lucky to get that call, and I treasured it. I did nine games. I didn't do any of them live, but I'll try and make the story as quick as possible. But just to indicate for any young broadcasters who might be listening about this. My first game was Mexico against Tunisia, not the most glamorous game, but I was the young kid on the block for ITV that I was working for then.
And Mexico, believe it or not, were playing in Germany beforehand. I thought, "Well, that's amazing. I've got no coverage of it." But I went to see them play a club side in Germany. They scored a penalty and the captain Vázquez Ayala, Arturo Vázquez Ayala. And I went, and commentators do a lot of hovering around, looking, checking faces, making sure they can recognize faces. And so I stood outside the Mexico dressing room, which you could do then. And he came out and he was waiting for the team bus. And I had hardly any Spanish. He had hardly any English. But basically I said, "Do you always put your penalties that side?" And he went, "Always."
Martin Tyler:
So fast forward to the game, my very first game, my very first potential goal, and it turned out to be my very first World Cup goal, Mexico get a penalty. So I bravely say, "I can tell you that he always puts it that side, the goalkeeper's left." I wasn't so pretentious to say, "As he told me a few weeks ago." And I held my breath. He scored, he put it that side and I was off at the World Cup. But the detail that goes into... And there were no mobile phones. You had to go to the game. And I went to the game, and I got lucky. And I suppose that was a moment. But I do a few talks for media courses, and I always tell that story. Don't be shy of asking a few questions. Get yourself out there and try and meet up with people. You've got a better chance.
Grant Wahl:
Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing that. Because I was going to ask you when young, aspiring broadcasters ask you for advice, what do you tell them? Are there any other things that you might share with them?
Martin Tyler:
It's very simple and it sounds trite, and they laugh at me when I say it. I say, "Watch the game." "Well, that's what we're doing." But no, you're not. You're thinking about what your prep tells you the game's going to be. Watch what happens. Don't be frightened to go, "Oh, that's a terrible tackle," or, "Oh, he scored, that's his first goal of the season. That's amazing."
So watch what actually happens. Don't read in. You don't get a lot of easy information about team lineups. But last night, Ralf Rangnick, I have to say, came out and said where Mata's playing, which was his first start of the season, and obviously his last game at Old Trafford in Manchester United red, I'm sure. But Bruno Fernandes is going to play from the left. Now we had put Mata on the right, Fernandes in the middle off the front, and Elanga to play across him on the left.
And then we went, "Oh, thanks Ralf." So we'll put Elanga on the right, Mata in the middle, and you've just told us, Bruno on the left. Sometimes of course the information isn't always as correct. It might be a bit of a bum steer. But I can remember saying last night and maybe some of your listeners to this, listened to the game. "Thanks, Ralf. That was really helpful. I'll think kindly of you for doing that."
So watch the game. Watch the game, love the game and go for it. And don't try to be Martin Tyler, Peter Drury, Guy Mowbray, John Motson, Barry Davies, all the great names over here. And I don't mean me as a great name, but all the contemporaries. Don't try and be us, try and be yourself. That's exactly what you have to be.
And it's kind of nice really to be able to go to work and just be yourself. I mean, if you mess up, then it's your fault, isn't it? And you can't blame anybody else. And you will mess up. That's the other thing. Learn to live with mess-ups because it comes with the territory. And I think I was a bit serious at the start, to be honest with you.
I did the World Cup in 1982 with Jack Charlton, the great late Jack Charlton of obviously England's World Cup-winning team in 1966, Bobby's brother. And he said, "Lighten up. You're taking this too seriously. Lighten up." He was my co-commentator for the whole of the England games in that World Cup. I've tried to lighten up, Jack. Thank you for that advice. It was very good advice.
Grant Wahl:
Last question for you is about the World Cup later this year. We've seen England get to the semifinals of the last World Cup and the final of the last Euros. If England were to win a World Cup and you were to broadcast it, what would that mean to you? Would you experience that differently than broadcasting a different team winning the World Cup?
Martin Tyler:
I hope not, because I'm broadcasting for Australia, where there is a huge love of England in certain sections of the population and a great sporting rivalry from another great section of the population. So I have to bear that in mind. Personally, it would mean a lot. I mean, I did the Euro final, and I felt that I just wanted the game to be sorted out in a way that rewarded the better team. England were the better team at the start, and I think Italy deserved to win, with very fine margins. England didn't really take full advantage of the early supremacy, the early Luke Shaw goal. So actually, I met Luke Shaw when he was 10 years old, just across the way where I'm pointing here. You can't see this. And for me, that was a personal thing. He played against a school team that my own son was playing in.
So you get those kind of moments, but the truth is I have to broadcast it from the heart, but from the head as well, mindful of the audience. I've always said if there's words that I haven't been able to utter in my broadcasting period for nearly five decades since I started working, "England have won the World Cup" are probably the words that I would like to have broadcast, but that's personal. Professionally, I can only tell you on the day.
I was working for UEFA for the world feed on the Euro 2020 final. And I hope people don't think I was biased. I never say England are we, even when I'm doing the games for Sky Sports, because we're British Sky Broadcasting, we've got Scotland, Wales and Ireland as well.
We'll see. They've got a chance. November's a good time to play. They'll be into their stride, they won't be exhausted, but it'll be very hot, even though it's not as hot as it would be if it were played in the orthodox time. Others will be feeling the same advantage as well from Europe. So we'll see. But there is a logical progression. Semifinal of the World Cup, the Nations League finished third. Fourth in the World Cup, third in the inaugural Nations League the following year. And of course second at Wembley in Euro 2020 in 2021. We'll see. It would be, for a country that puts huge expectations on its players, I think it would be reward for Gareth Southgate and this fine group of young footballers and young people that we have at the moment.
Grant Wahl:
Martin Tyler calls games for Sky Sports in the UK and the World Cup for SBS in Australia. Martin, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Martin Tyler:
Thanks for staying up to make it happen.
Grant, this is absolutely one of the best pod interviews you’ve ever done. Thanks. This is why we subscribe.
Wow, cannot believe that there was such a strong, even compelling, connection, between Vin Scully and Martin Tyler, two of the truly greats -- legends, really -- in sport broadcasting!!! Another Wahl gem!!! And Bill Buckner and that 1986 series between the Red Sox and the Mets! A classic! I went to Game Five at Fenway! Not a huge Mets fan but, of course, a Red Sox foe by dint of being a huge Yankees fan since age 11 when I arrived in the United States as an immigrant in the summer of 1960. And so I found myself rooting massively for the Amazins in 1986! And such patterns, of course, happen in soccer as well when I routinely root for a lesser foe's victory over a more hated foe! I will not mention any concrete examples. Martin Tyler is a gem! Thanks for this interview, Grant!