The Interview: Julie Foudy

The ESPN broadcaster on Euro 2022, USWNT-Canada, being an Angel City owner, Cindy Parlow Cone, the USSF equal-pay deals and much more

Courtesy ESPN

My first interview with Julie Foudy was in (yikes) 1996. Twenty-six years ago! We’re a bit older and wiser these days—or at least a bit older—and I’m always fired up to speak to her. There’s some good stuff below!

The entirety of the written interview below is reserved for paid subscribers. As always, you can still get the entire free audio version of my podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to go for your pods.

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Grant Wahl:

Our guest now is the gold standard. Julie Foudy of ESPN joins us now. She was episode number two of our podcast. Two years later, she is now episode number 242.

Julie Foudy:

Wow.

Grant Wahl:

You can hear her on her podcast, Laughter Permitted, and watch her on ESPN's wall-to-wall coverage of Euro 2022.

Julie Foudy:

242 episodes, Grant?

Grant Wahl:

Yeah. It's great to see you. How are you? Thanks for coming on the show.

Julie Foudy:

Look at you, 242 in. That's impressive.

Grant Wahl:

It's kind of incredible, but when you do two episodes a week and you do it every week, they pile up eventually.

Julie Foudy:

I know. It’s so good, too. They're really good. You're doing great stuff.

Julie Foudy on the USWNT: “I feel like there's so much creativity in that young group that we just haven't been able as a country to put together yet. I think there's a tremendous upside to that younger group, for sure. We've seen it in Sophia Smith, and Mal Pugh, and Ashley Sánchez, and you go down the list of all the potential with that younger group. But it's not there yet. That movement isn't there, that continuity isn't there. Even just the speed of play and the pace and the pressing, and I know it's been hot. So it's easy for me to say in an air-conditioned room that they're not pressing enough. I know it's been really hot. But it just feels like there's a lot of tinkering still, and we're not yet getting the best out of those players.”

Grant Wahl:

Thank you. It's great to see you. We're recording this on Saturday, coming out Monday morning. The Euros are in full swing. You are all over it. What has stood out to you so far about this tournament?

Julie Foudy:

Oh, gosh. How many days do we have? Well, most recent, Norway's collapse. When was the last time we've seen a Norway team without any bite, any mentality? It's like, wow, what happened to the Norway of old? You used to walk away completely battered and bruised after those games, and that was a different team. So they're a disappointment. On a positive note, Germany, their resurgence with this group, I thought they’ve looked excellent. They haven't won a Euros by their standards in forever, because it's been almost a decade, and they have won more than anyone else, of course, eight, six in a row leading into, well, up to 2013.

So I thought Germany's looked excellent. I think England and France are your other two teams I think that are the favorites. So England of course seems to be handling the pressure well. We'll see when they go into the quarterfinal phase what that will mean. But France, with all the discussion about them being a hot mess and so much controversy surrounding their team with their coach, Diacre, and some of her antics, they seem to be playing well and looking good.

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Grant Wahl:

It's interesting, right? I'm just really enjoying having the opportunity to watch this entire tournament on ESPN platforms, because we really haven't had that opportunity before. How important is it to you that ESPN has made the decision to cover this tournament this way?

Julie Foudy:

Huge, huge. Because obviously we've seen the energy and effort we put in behind the men's tournament, and particularly men's Euros. Obviously ESPN doesn't have the World Cup anymore, but yeah, it was a big thing that we brought up. I said, "Look, we can't be doing all of this for the men and nothing for the women. We need to show our commitment to the women's side of this." So Amy Rosenfeld, before she left ESPN, was great in pushing it and pushing it and pushing it as well.

And then all of a sudden it was like, "Okay, Julie. Guess what? Your wish came true. Not only are we covering it, we're covering 25 of the 31 games, and you're spending all month here." But it's necessary. It's historical what's happening, the numbers that are coming, the attendance, the chance for England to finally possibly win their first major tournament. So I'm super proud of ESPN and the effort they've put into this.

Grant Wahl:

How much fun are you having with people like Emma Hayes, and Steffi Jones, and that whole group?

Julie Foudy:

What we say every day is, "We sit by our fire pit and do our nightcap." Literally every night we're together, and it's perfect timing with the games. Because you're off-air by like 5:30, and you have all evening. So it's so much fun. Emma and Steffi are characters. Emma is constantly entertaining around the fire pit, and I get to see all these old teammates of mine that I played with. So it's been really fun, and it's just a good group of humans who care deeply about the sport. So it's been a ton of fun. That's really what we should be filming.

Grant Wahl:

There should be, yeah, like on ESPN8, like a constant show.

Julie Foudy:

Right, a live cam of the fireside chats.

Grant Wahl:

How do you feel about this idea that Europe maybe hasn't just closed the gap with the U.S.? Because we're going to get to the U.S. in a second and what's going on there, but that maybe Europe has passed the U.S. in this whole discussion here. What's going on in Europe in your opinion, and where are they in relation to the U.S.? And is that a little unfair considering that the U.S. isn't in the exact same position right now as they prepare for the World Cup?

Julie Foudy:

Yeah. They're rebuilding, and they realize they have some time. They still have a year for that. But I will say that the football you're seeing from Europe on the women's side, and the numbers and the attention, and not just in England, I mean, we're seeing it all over the place in Europe, is fantastic to see. And I think the reason you see it is because these large clubs, these huge global brands, are driving it.

For many years I thought the driving force of women's football would be FIFA mandating to these federations, but that's not it at all. Right? What we're seeing is the biggest growth factor is because these big clubs are finally investing in a women's game. So there's better games, there's better training, there's clearly more professionalism across the board around Europe, and that has wonderful consequences. Because you have players who are training against the best every day, who are playing against the best, there's more parity within the leagues as well. So it's absolutely the money from a lot of these big clubs, I think, that has driven this really important step forward for Europe in terms of women's soccer.

Grant Wahl:

Where does the U.S. fit into that? Because it's not like the NWSL is standing still, and most of the U.S. players still play in the NWSL. Is this a rising tide that lifts all boats? Is it more of a positive than a concern for you when it comes to where the U.S. fits in?

Julie Foudy:

Oh, it'll always be a positive when you see more pockets around the world embracing and celebrating women playing. That is absolutely a positive. I think it's tough for NWSL because there's just so much competition in the marketplace. That was never the case with obviously the old iterations of women's pro leagues in the United States. Maybe you could argue in the second league WPS there was the start of Europe coming in and stealing our market of players. But now you've got a player who ... Imagine like a Grace Geyoro from France who plays at PSG. She's got so many clubs coming after her. Look at the young Haitian player, her last name escapes me, but ...

Grant Wahl:

Dumornay.

Julie Foudy:

Dumornay, thank you. 50 clubs is what I heard them say on the telecast after her. So it's clearly something that has become more challenging to sign the best players. Before, everyone wanted to come to the United States, and now you're seeing with all these enormous clubs and the facilities they have, and the backing they're getting for the women's side ... And I still think we're just scratching the surface of that. I think that's going to just keep growing exponentially. It makes sense they want to stay in Europe, or they want to go to Barcelona, or they want to play for Lyon. So it's going to be a challenge, for sure, for NWSL going forward.

Grant Wahl:

So we've got the CONCACAF women's championship going on. It's U.S.A-Canada in the final on Monday. What's your sense of the U.S. performance in this tournament?

Julie Foudy:

Eh ... That's how I feel about it right now. Eh ... That's what I always say. It's like, ugh, it's a little bit ... I don't know. I feel like there's so much creativity in that young group that we just haven't been able as a country to put together yet, the United States. I think there's a tremendous upside to that younger group, for sure. We've seen it in Sophia Smith, and Mal Pugh, and Ashley Sánchez, and you go down the list of all the potential with that younger group. But it's not there yet. That movement isn't there, that continuity isn't there. Even just the speed of play and the pace and the pressing, and I know it's been hot. So it's easy for me to say in an air-conditioned room that they're not pressing enough. I know it's been really hot.

But it just feels like there's a lot of tinkering still, and we're not yet getting the best out of those players. But having said that, I do think it was a necessary page to turn in terms of going younger, and that as we know is never easy as you introduce a lot of young 20-something year-olds into the mix. But I do think this Canada game will be a great test for them in terms of where they're at. So I'm excited to see that.

Grant Wahl:

Yeah, me too. When the World Cup comes around in a year, what do you think the U.S. roster will look like? I think of some names that aren't involved right now for reasons of injury or pregnancy. Crystal Dunn, Sam Mewis, Julie Ertz, Christen Press, Tobin Heath. How many of those players do you think will be on that squad?

Julie Foudy:

It's a great question. I think more of that middle group versus the veteran group. So the veteran group I see that's a little bit older is Christen Press, Tobin Heath. I think they're on the outside looking in, and obviously with Press's injury, I think probably the window for 2023 is gone, unfortunately for her. For a player like Julie Ertz, that's the middle group I have always considered. So mid to late 20s, actually probably more like late 20s now. So Julie Ertz, Sam Mewis, Crystal Dunn, I think those three are very much in the picture.

Because if they can show that they can get back ... Every time Vlatko talks about the team, he talks about the importance of those three to this past team and how he's eager to see where they're at. But I think Sam Mewis's knee injury is very concerning. It's just not getting better. So I worry about that more than I worry about Ertz and Dunn getting back into shape. And of course if Ertz is going to play her club soccer at the great Angel City, we shall see ... I don't know what that means for her if she doesn't, because Vlatko has said repeatedly he wants them to perform first at the club level. So maybe he makes an exception for her, but I don't see that. I think she's going to have to play at the club level.

Grant Wahl:

You mentioned Angel City. You're an owner of this team. How much are you enjoying this process of going to Angel City games, seeing what that club is doing, and all the success they're having?

Julie Foudy:

I will tell you, Grant, because when we go to games, typically we as journalists, we're working. Right? I'm either calling a game, I'm covering a game, I'm reporting on a game. And I go to Angel City games, I have a big old drink before the game starts, I don't have to worry about any work. Literally I'm hanging out with all my teammates, right? We're all owners. There's 14 of us that are owners. It's a huge reunion every time there's a home game. It's an incredible ownership group that's a ton of fun, and it's just a blast.

Even my kids. My kids are begging to go to games with me, and my kids are teenagers. No teenagers beg to hang with their parents. It's the only time I can get them to hang with me. So we literally cart up like seven people every game, the kids and their friends, and it's just so much fun. So that has been a joy that really I feel lucky to be a part of, because it's just such a neat group of awesome women and awesome owners. And really they just think differently, which is so nice and I think so needed.

Grant Wahl:

It's really cool to see. It is fun for me sometimes to actually go as a fan to a game and not be working, and, "Oh wait, you can drink a beer, and actually this is fun."

Julie Foudy:

Imagine. I don't have to completely lock in the whole time. Our section is starting the wave every time. It's so fun. It literally is like, Mia is behind me, Abby is to my left, Shannon Boxx has seats right here. We all sit together as well. Tisha is to my right, Venturini. So it's really fun.

Grant Wahl:

That's really cool. I want to ask you also about the Julie Foudy Sports Leadership Academy, because I know you had this happen again fairly recently, and it seems really cool. Can you explain what it is?

Julie Foudy:

Yeah. We've been doing that ever since I retired from playing. I always just felt like, gosh, why aren't we teaching young women also about not just how to kick a soccer ball, or we do basketball and lacrosse as well ... To play their sport, but really the gift of sports is we're creating better human beings who go back into their communities and give back, and are positive leaders in their community. And for a lot of young women, even the best athletes, they lack that confidence to raise their hand, or get out of their comfort zone, or take that step forward, or take a risk. So it's a lot of really fun, high-energy leadership training and sports of course together. We merge the two. I can't believe I've been doing it for, this was our 17th summer, I think, of doing it.

The last few years we've had this really cool addition of the State Department. They have this great Sports Diplomacy program, which you've probably heard about because a lot of athletes travel abroad, and we do this exchange with athletes, us sending athletes to them. Like Brandi and I did a week in Brazil once, and they go all over the world, but they bring athletes to us. So they brought 65 girls from 13 different countries. So Bolivia, Liberia, Brazil, Georgia, you just go down the list. It's crazy. Bangladesh. It's really cool.

Grant Wahl:

Speaking of leadership, I wanted to ask you about U.S. Soccer President Cindy Parlow Cone. Back in the day I would've guessed that if any ‘99er would someday become U.S. Soccer President, it would be you.

Julie Foudy:

No one wishes that. (laughs)

Grant Wahl:

But I recently wrote a column saying that Cindy has become a historical figure in U.S. Soccer with the equal-pay agreement especially. What do you think of how she's done in that position?

Julie Foudy:

I think she's absolutely crushing it. I'm so incredibly proud of her, because this was not a position she sought out either. This vice-president position, and then when Carlos gets let go ... Fired, resigned, however you want to say it, basically let go, she has to step in and fill this leadership void, and she has been tremendous. It's not surprising, honestly. I know she wasn't the one in the middle of the huddle pounding her chest, roaring like a lion to get the team going. She was quieter. But the thing you always knew about Cindy is she's so steady. Her integrity and her moral compass in terms of just good intentions and doing the right things is as good as I've seen in any human. And then on top of that, she's willing to make tough decisions, and quickly.

And that's hard for a lot of people stepping into that leadership position and running a federation as large and successful as this one. Yet she knows what's needed and is willing to make the hard decisions and act quickly. I think when you combine all those traits, it makes for great leadership, and she's trying to rebuild a culture within the federation that obviously is more inclusive and supports the women and all these things that have been a challenge in the past that she gets because she's lived it. So the importance of having a player as well in that role can't be understated.

Grant Wahl:

I wanted to ask you about the equal-pay agreement. Because we did a podcast series, I guess it was 2019, where I interviewed you extensively, but also a bunch of other players from the '91 World Cup-winning team and the U.S. teams from the '90s. And you spoke in great, compelling detail about how difficult it was with U.S. Soccer in those days basically ever since. And now this equal-pay deal has finally happened. How do you feel about that when you look back at your entire experience with all of this?

Julie Foudy:

Well, it's not surprising that it happens under Cindy, being, as I just said, a past player who gets it, and also being a woman who understands the battle and the fight that's gone and raged on for a long time, and the frustration around that. I think that helps, because the players knew that she understood it and could trust that her intentions were there in the right place. So I think that helps get it over that finish line, which we know has been a long time coming.

So we, the 99ers group and the Old Bag thread that we have, we're doing a lot of celebration. Frustration that it took so long, but celebration that we're finally there, and really there. You have a lot of federations who say, "Oh, we're offering equal pay," and I'm like, "Nah." Equal percentage of a bonus that's $400 million and equal percentage of a bonus that then is $40 million for the women is not equal pay. That's very different, and they're all saying that. I'm like, no, Cindy knew the big elephant in the room was the difference in prize money from FIFA, and literally said to both teams, "I am not signing a contract until this gets equalized. We will not sign a contract until the FIFA money gets sorted. So you guys sit down and figure it out."

And they did, and I give a ton of credit to the men as well, because I know that wasn't an easy decision as well. And I wish in the end now that we really are one team, one nation finally for the first time, that now we can tackle this together, the men and the women, and go after FIFA and say, "That gap needs to change in terms of the pay," and obviously you need to support the women more. And now we have the men, when they do well, the women are celebrating, and when the women do well, the men are celebrating because everyone is reaping that reward and you're getting a piece of it. And that's really something we should have done long ago. We should have all been on the same page in terms of sharing the pot.

Grant Wahl:

We're wrapping up here with Julie Foudy. I do want to ask you about FIFA a little bit, though, because there's still discussion. I had Alex Morgan for an interview just last week, and she's on this committee that Jill Ellis runs for FIFA that is still actively considering whether the women's World Cup should be every two years. I'm kind of torn on that one. I didn't want to see the men's World Cup go to once every two years, but I'm not ready to rule out the idea of a women's World Cup every two years if you make that change. But I'd love to hear your thoughts on that possibility.

Julie Foudy:

I don't love it. I think the calendar is already busy enough. I think it also diminishes the importance of the World Cup being on that quadrennial cycle. So I think it would be a challenge. How do you fit that in with the Euros as well? And with the club and Champions League competitions we're seeing, I'd rather see a club World Cup than every other year. And the challenge of course for FIFA is for those countries that don't do a lot of programming, is trying to create more programming.

I still think you can get there, and these countries are all seeing that there's all this money being left on the table, honestly, and we know how money moves things ... That hey, there's this untapped potential that you can see the countries who are getting it are tapping into it. Look at the transformation in Spain. I would not have predicted that even five years ago, and how quickly that country is supporting it. We obviously see the growth and support there and how well they're doing. But I just think it's asking too much of the players, and I don't think in the end you get the benefits of more competition. I just think it dilutes actually the World Cup for women, and I think we need the World Cup for women to be this global event that really is transformational in nature.

Grant Wahl:

And obviously the World Cup is a year away. ESPN doesn't have the tournament. Will you be there? How will that work for you?

Julie Foudy:

I'll be there I'm sure in some capacity. I don't know yet how or what I'll be doing. But yeah, I'll be there, for sure. I wouldn't miss that. Especially, I'm trying to sell that I should be in New Zealand and Australia prepping all of this for a good six months with the whole family. So I'm going to need all of 2023 to investigate the stadiums! That's going to be a good one. That's going to be a ton of fun.

Grant Wahl:

Julie Foudy is covering the Euros right now with ESPN. Julie, thanks so much for coming on the show.

Julie Foudy:

Thanks, Grant.