The Interview: Jessica Berman
The Newly Named NWSL Commissioner on Why She Wanted the Job, How She'll Make Black Players Feel More Welcomed, Her Relationship with Players, Expansion Interest from More than Seven Parties and More
When a new sports league commissioner is announced and that person often does a bunch of media interviews, as incoming NWSL commissioner Jessica Berman has done, it must feel a lot like going through the job interview process all over again. But if that’s the case, you can also learn quickly how Berman got the NWSL job. She’s extremely impressive to interview, as you’ll read below, and you come away from it feeling optimistic about what lies ahead for the running of a league that faced a reckoning over the past year across the board.
The entirety of the written interview below is reserved for paid subscribers. As always, you can still get the entire free audio version of my podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to go for your pods.
Grant Wahl:
The NWSL just started its annual Challenge Cup over the weekend, and our guest now is Jessica Berman. She was recently named the next commissioner of the NWSL, where she will officially start work on April 20. Berman spent the past two years as the deputy commissioner of the National Lacrosse League. She's been running it recently after a 13-year tenure in the NHL. Jessica, congratulations on the new job and thanks for coming on the show.
Jessica Berman:
Thanks for having me. I'm so excited about the NWSL.
Grant Wahl:
Lots to talk about here. You've been doing a ton of interviews, and it's been interesting to listen to those and hear what you're about a little bit. The first question I would have would just be a basic one. Why did you want the NWSL commissioner's job?
Jessica Berman:
I have always believed in the power of sport. I have, as you can see, and maybe you heard me talk about in some of my interviews, the Nelson Mandela quote that "Sport has the power to change the world." And I genuinely believe that the NWSL is the manifestation of the intersection of purpose and profit. And it is the thing that will hook the next generation. And so it really is the perfect property to create our proof of concept that we can do good and do well.
We can be relevant and meaningful in the community and lean into our ability to influence communities and social impact while also being a business, and I think that second piece is the thing that I'm really excited to be part of and bring to bear with the history of women's sports being thought of perhaps as ‘charity.’ And I think we know that the NWSL is not charity. It is a business, and it is ready to thrive.
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Grant Wahl:
We saw recently, I think this past week, Angel City, the new team out in Los Angeles, announced $35 million in sponsorships, which is pretty incredible. Do you know any more details about that? In terms of, is that just this year or years beyond or just committed, and where does that stack up in the bigger picture context-wise?
Jessica Berman:
Being that I'm still five weeks from my start date. I don't have the details on it, but I do know, and I listened to [Angel City execs] Julie Uhrman and Alexis Ohanian and talk about that in their event at South by Southwest and her announcement that they're at $35 million sponsorship. They really are the case study on this intersection of purpose and profit and this idea that they are actually selling sponsorship and tickets with the commitment to give back to community.
And it is the thing that is driving interest from investors, and I'm excited to really embrace that at the league level and also share best practices across the league. Because in my experience, the role of the league is not just to grow the national assets of the league, but also to be the aggregator and the amplifier of best practices that are happening at a local level. And clearly what they're doing from a business perspective is a best practice that we can help to facilitate the sharing across the other 11 markets.
Grant Wahl:
They've sold a lot of season tickets too out there for that new team. I'm really excited to see how that team looks on the field and off the field, but really encouraging. It was very clear that the NWSL players were heavily involved in your hiring process. How would you describe your interactions with the players during that whole thing?
Jessica Berman on when NWSL expansion could take place: “Soon. Probably among the top few short-term priorities for me when I walk in the door, which is to organize a process for us to figure out who, what, where, when, why, and how. But I can say, almost as an outsider, just since the announcement [of her becoming commissioner] last Wednesday, I have personally been contacted by more than seven potential investor groups who are all bizarrely and insanely qualified to be owners in any major professional sports league. These are top-quality owners. So I think it's going to be a very hard decision on our side, but a good problem to have.”
Jessica Berman:
Well, first of all, hats off to the players in the union for asking for a seat at the table. Hats off to the board for giving them that seat at the table. And I was really the beneficiary of that because I felt that it actually gave me the opportunity to have firsthand visibility and direct purview into whether and how we would be able to navigate this path forward.
And as I've said multiple times, I would not want this role if I didn't feel that I could actually contribute and add value. My perspective coming out of my meetings with the players in the union was that I could add value, and that these players were really ready to embrace the league moving forward, me as a leader, and I was confident coming out of those conversations that, as importantly, that the players and the union really have a substantive contribution to make in our story of growth.
And they have fantastic ideas, they ask great questions, they're super savvy and super smart, and it just all comes back to the fact that, as I've always said, I'm a true believer in diversity. And if you're a true believer in diversity, then it's incumbent upon you to lean into those moments of uncomfortability where you're getting feedback and perspectives from people who either represent a different constituent, come from a different background, think differently, ask unique questions.
Those moments might make you uncomfortable as a leader because they might seemingly take you in a different direction or bring you in a circuitous route to bringing a decision to conclusion or execution. But I think the world has learned, and in 2022 I hope we're at a place where not everything is measured by how quickly you can bring something to action. It's more about the quality of the process and being able to leave space for people to contribute.
And I genuinely believe that the players and the union have a role to play in offering their perspective. And again, it doesn't always mean that we'll agree on everything. I'm a labor lawyer. I've certainly been through my share of labor disputes in my career, but that doesn't preclude their ability to have an opportunity to offer their perspective that is valuable and valued.
Grant Wahl:
One question in this realm that may have come up when you were talking to the players, I wanted to ask you about, in the sense of Black women, Black players, haven't always felt welcome or completely understood in the NWSL. And I'm wondering what you're hoping to do as a commissioner to lead change in that area.
Jessica Berman:
Well, the backstory for me about why I'm so passionate about diversity and inclusion is because I grew up in Brooklyn in a community of color. And I went to a public high school in Brooklyn where I was the minority. And in my experience in those very formative years of my life, which was ages 14 to 18, I had many, many conversations, but also just observations about how marginalized communities, even in the context where they were the majority, in my high school, they were the majority, but still their perspective was shaped by being a marginalized or underrepresented community.
And from that moment, I really leaned into the fact that ... And this is how my formula of my desire to work in a sports industry really came about, that sport was an opportunity to really unite people in a way that was different from almost anything else in our social fabric. Perhaps music, perhaps food, those were the three things that I always observed and really just clung to the sports sphere.
And to all the players of color in the league, and particularly Black players, I think there is an opportunity to really first pause, stop, and listen. Seek to understand what the challenges have been, and then really work collaboratively to create solutions for the culture that we expect to provide to all players where everybody, one of the sayings I always have said is, if you love a game, you should feel that the game loves you back, and that our sport should really be a reflection of the communities we serve.
And therefore there needs to be an intentional effort to reach out to those typically under indexed or marginalized communities and invite them to the conversation specifically. Because what we know about marginalized communities is that without that intentionality, oftentimes that feeling of being marginalized becomes perpetuated generationally. And I've worked with a lot of nonprofit organizations to learn about the systemic issues that have created that, many of which unfortunately still exist, and what are the tools and resources to proactively combat that. And I'm still on a journey of learning as, I think, most people are. I would hope that most people would acknowledge that. Nobody is the be all, end all in this space, and we all still can learn together. So I hope to have the opportunity to work with the collective and to find opportunities to support their objectives.
Grant Wahl:
In any of your conversations with the players, whether it was during your interview process, or even since you were named the next commissioner, have they brought up trust issues with the league in connection to what we saw last season in terms of, I think there were five male head coaches either fired or forced to resign due to misconduct in the league, and you had a sixth team, Gotham, fired its GM for misconduct. Your predecessor as commissioner was forced to resign for her lack of response to player calls for investigations. How do you plan to rebuild that trust between the players and the commissioner's office moving forward?
Jessica Berman:
The league is committed to creating and facilitating a safe environment for players and really all of our constituents, and it'll be my responsibility to ensure that the appropriate policies and procedures are in place from a macro perspective. But then I really feel that my background in labor relations is going to be the key to unlocking the union and the players in terms of their support, trust and building that credibility, that bridge. Because some people might think, "Oh, there's a CBA in place, so that must mean that you don't have to worry about the union anymore. They're good. Their deal is done."
This is actually the time when you build the trust. Can the league, will the league show up on a daily, weekly, as needed basis to provide the platform and the forum for the union and the league to problem-solve, to communicate? Sometimes the issues are small. Sometimes the issues are big. Sometimes we might bring something to the table. Sometimes they might bring something to the table. I think what is lost on the fans, probably, and people who aren't behind the scenes in collective bargaining, is that a collective bargaining agreement is a living, breathing document.
It's not as if you negotiate it and then you put it in cement and you close it and then you open it up again in five years. The parties will oftentimes discuss modifications or side letters that amend the terms of the CBA. And in fact, I would argue that that's evidence of a very healthy relationship because we should both expect that no matter how diligent or thorough everyone was in bargaining, there will be things that are identified that are either gaps or weren't covered in the agreement or unintended consequences that maybe weren't contemplated.
And it's the strength of our relationship that's going to allow us to work on those proactively or respectfully conclude, "You know what?" We need to take this to arbitration for either political or other reasons and nothing personal, we're still working together, but let's see what a third party neutral arbitrator might say in this context, and you move on. So that's what I hope to achieve with the union, the kind of relationship where we can proactively problem-solve, raise issues before they're a real issue, conclude jointly, "You know what, we've done everything we can to try to resolve this. Let's go to arbitration if we need to." But have the kind of relationship where it doesn't impact our relationship moving forward.
Grant Wahl:
It's the 10th year of the league, which is a real milestone considering its two predecessor leagues lasted only three seasons each. Where do you see the business side of this league going in the near term and maybe the long term?
Jessica Berman:
Ten years is a huge milestone. I think it should be celebrated. But I think we also need to contextualize the fact that when people talk about where are we in our growth cycle, these other leagues have been around for 100 years. Literally 100 years, 10 times the number of years that this league has been around. And with that as the context, I think the league's success has been very impressive. Women's sports and the NWSL in particular clearly were able to establish very clear growth metrics during COVID that have really catalyzed and expedited the growth of the business that are now being capitalized on from a revenue perspective. And that is part of what has made me really excited, because it really feels like the intersection of all those factors has led to this perfect positive storm that will allow this league to really grow in a much more expedited way than it might otherwise have been able to achieve.
Grant Wahl:
This week in Austin at South by Southwest, we saw Sandra Bullock, who's an Austinite, the actress, say that she'd love to see an NWSL team come to Austin. What is the current situation on potential expansion for the league and any current interest that the league is receiving, and how soon does the league want to expand again?
Jessica Berman:
Well, the answer to the last question is soon. Probably among the top few short-term priorities for me when I walk in the door, which is to organize a process for us to figure out who, what, where, when, why, and how. But I can say, almost as an outsider, just since the announcement last Wednesday, I have personally been contacted by more than seven potential investor groups who are all bizarrely and insanely qualified to be owners in any major professional sports league. These are top-quality owners.
So I think it's going to be a very hard decision on our side, but a good problem to have. A very good problem to have. And there's a lot of pent-up demand for expansion. And I think despite the challenges of the last six months, and in part due to the hard work of everyone at the league, our partners, and the board to stabilize the league in the last six months, we're in a great place. This league is primed for growth, and expansion is going to be one of those probably early successes that we'll be celebrating in the coming months.
Grant Wahl:
Nice. That's good to hear. That's more than I was expecting on the number of interested parties.
Jessica Berman:
Me too. Me too. Me too. It's quite impressive, I have to say, very impressive.
Grant Wahl:
So at the National Lacrosse League, you've been there two and a half years. Part of that time was with the now former commissioner Nick Sakiewicz, who had a long history in MLS with soccer. Did he ever share anything with you about his experience in the American soccer world?
Jessica Berman:
Oh, a lot. First of all, Grant, maybe you can be the one to uncover this because I've been waiting for someone to observe the fact that Nick and I traded places. I think it's hilarious. Apparently nobody else does. But I've been waiting for someone to be like, "Isn't it weird that Nick's working in hockey and Jessica's working in soccer?" I think it's funny. Nick's love for soccer is one of the most authentic things.
If you talk to Nick, anyone who's talked to Nick, would know when he talks about soccer, he just explodes with enthusiasm. He loves the sport. He's still very involved. He talked a lot about, in our many, many hours just me and him, the growth story of soccer, particularly in the U.S. He was really part of that with his involvement in MLS, both at the league office and then at multiple teams. And so yeah, I think through that process, not knowing how applicable any of it would've been, but listening and learning from him just because he's an impressive sports industry executive. So I absorbed a lot from him about the sport and about his observations on where it's going and how it can get there that I think will be very helpful to me in this role.
Grant Wahl:
I also wanted to ask, I assume as the NWSL commissioner you're going to take a seat on the U.S. Soccer Federation board. Is that accurate? And when does that happen, and have you heard anything about what that board's like?
Jessica Berman:
Oh, I don't know what the word is. I didn't realize that. Or I didn't know that until actually Don Garber told me that when he reached out to me to wish me an offer of congratulations and anything he can do to help, he also said, "And we're going to sit next to each other on this board." And I was like, "Oh, what's that like?" And he was explaining to me and getting me excited, frankly, about the opportunity, given how global the sport is, to have that international visibility that really does have a direct impact on the league and its operations.
And I'm very excited about that. I had a tiny bit of exposure to that at the NHL, working a little bit with the IIHF and some of the European federations and certainly USA Hockey and Hockey Canada, because similarly, although not to the same degree, hockey has that international overlap with the NHL schedule. Of course the Olympics, we won't talk about that, the World Cup, the world juniors, all of those international competitions do affect the scheduling of the league and all of those things.
So I had some visibility into that, but based on what I understand from Don and now others, it sounds like this will be at a whole different level, and I'm excited to learn and understand that and really see and experience how impactful this sport is on a global basis.
Grant Wahl:
I just wanted to wrap up with a question connected to your Twitter bio, which includes the phrase "Adventure traveler." Can you elaborate on that?
Jessica Berman:
Sure [laughs]. When I am not commissioner or sports executive by day, my as-described unicorn space, my thing that makes me feel whole that has nothing to do with my work is that I'm sort of an adrenaline junkie. I like to do things that make me feel alive, and so I love to climb mountains and rock-climb and mountain bike and I've jumped out of planes and do stuff like that. So when I say adventure traveler, I mean getting uncomfortable in a place where your heart is pounding and you're a little bit scared, but kind of excited to see what your body's capable of.
Grant Wahl:
Would you consider for one of your first games jumping out of a plane and landing in the stadium?
Jessica Berman:
Yes, I would, in fact [laughs]. But you'll have to clear it with my children, who were very upset that for my 40th birthday I wanted to skydive, and I did for my 40th birthday. And they were not happy about it. You'll have to clear it with my bosses, which are my 14 and 11 year old.
Grant Wahl:
Jessica Berman will be taking over as the next commissioner of the NWSL on April 20. Jessica, congratulations, good luck and thanks for coming on the show.
Jessica Berman:
Thanks for having me.