The Interview: Jermaine Jones
The U.S. World Cup star from 2014, who has a UEFA Pro license, is working as an assistant coach on the U.S. Under-19 men's team and doing TV commentary these days.
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Jermaine Jones will always tell you how he feels. I appreciate that. More than two years had passed since our last interview, so it was good to catch up with a guy who starred for the U.S. in World Cup 2014. He’s making his way down the coaching path these days, working as an assistant on the U.S. Under-19 men’s national team after doing the hard work to earn a UEFA Pro coaching license. We talk about all of that below, including his thoughts on the current USMNT as it prepares for the World Cup.
The entirety of the written interview below is reserved for paid subscribers. As always, you can still get the entire free audio version of my podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to go for your pods.
Grant Wahl:
Our guest now is Jermaine Jones. He starred in the 2014 World Cup for the U.S. men's national team and had a 19-year pro playing career in Europe and MLS. He's now an assistant coach for the U.S. Under-19 men's national team, the holder of a UEFA Pro coaching license and a TV analyst. He's also starting a mentorship program with young players and coaches, and he'll be working in media at the World Cup in Qatar. Jermaine, it's great to speak to you. Thanks for coming on the show.
Jermaine Jones:
Thanks for having me, man.
Jermaine Jones on whether the current USMNT has a Jermaine Jones who puts fear into opponents: “I don’t want to compare myself that there’s somebody else like me, because I don’t believe there is somebody with the personality like me. I don’t want to say something bad about people, but I think the closest one you can say is Weston [McKennie].”
Grant Wahl:
How are you? Let's start with that. How are you? It's been a while.
Jermaine Jones:
Yeah, it's been really a while. I'm doing good. I’m just being around, just doing my things, working on stuff, trying to get stuff running and focusing on the coaching side. It's been a journey, but it's coming there.
Grant Wahl:
Congratulations on your role as an assistant with the Under-19 men's national team. How did that come about?
Jermaine Jones:
We were talking about it, and I saw the guys like Brian [McBride] and Earnie Stewart. I saw them at the games when I did TV work for ESPN. We just chatted a little bit in what's going on in life and I said, "Yeah, I'm doing my coaching badges and I'm looking to do TV, but my main point is I want to coach." They asked me if I would be interested. I was running for the 19s job, and at the end they made the decision to give it to the head coach Marko [Mitrovic], what was good for me, because he had more experience and I was good to be his assistant and can see and learn from him, and then they told me that at one point they will give me the 16s, so still an open job, so we will see.
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Grant Wahl:
Well, it's cool to see you getting into coaching. You obviously have a tremendous amount of experience in this sport. What have you done so far in your role with U.S. soccer? What teams have you worked with, places you've gone?
Jermaine Jones:
I've been most of the time at the U-19s because that's my main group, but then I went to Texas, Frisco, the first time to go on a showcase and just watch games, and I was excited about it because just to see how much talent you have in these age groups and in general, if you go lower down with our groups and you see the players, it's unbelievable how much talent we have in this country. It's just now for me, excited to work with these young groups, with these young men, and give back my experience that I had over the years.
Grant Wahl:
How much time do you spend in this coaching role with U.S. Soccer?
Jermaine Jones:
I'm just fresh, so I would say not even a year, but it's a lot of work and I'm learning for myself. There's so much behind it. A lot of times you think like, oh, I'm coming back from playing career and it's easy to go out there and just do whatever I knew from the field, but it's the opposite. You dig in, you learn about philosophies, identities and how you can create your own vision on the game. U.S. Soccer helped me with that to give me a chance to lead the 19s.
Grant Wahl:
I don't know how many listeners to this show are aware of what goes into getting a UEFA Pro coaching license. It's really involved. What all did you have to do to earn that?
Jermaine Jones:
I started straight after I retired, because I had a conversation with people from MLS and USL and I told everybody I want to coach at one point, but I will dig in now and start with my coaching badges. And I started with my U.S. soccer B, and I think when I look back four years ago, I started with everything, and it's going back to school. I had to go back there. Especially with the UEFA license, I had to fly to Northern Ireland back and forth and stay there for weeks and do training and all that stuff.
But it was good, because I enjoyed it because I saw a lot of ex-players who I played against and all that locker room talk and going back. That pushed me more back into, oh, I want to do this. That's my calling, the player management side on coaching. But you're digging into really learning the system on a different view on the game.
Grant Wahl:
Did you have to do one big project or a big written project for your UEFA Pro license?
Jermaine Jones:
Yeah, you have to do it already with the B and A. You’re going back and you have tasks that you have to put to the table, and the UEFA one was then, too. One was to analyze the game Paris against Man City, which was actually a good one, and then there's other tasks. You have to do your own training sessions. There's a lot of stuff you have to do, but everything is related to soccer, so it's not that difficult. I said for me, the moment when I stepped into this, I said what I want to learn is I want to learn to do all the PowerPoints, all that stuff, because as players you're not focused on that.
I wanted to know what's behind the soccer world in coaching, because we're just seeing the front part. There's a little bit of coaching on the field, but there's so much more behind it. So I wanted to dig in, learn all that side, because I knew the side on the field, that would be easy for me because I've been there for 19 years and I did it day in, day out, but I wanted to know how you set up training sessions, how you write your own philosophy on the game, all that stuff. It was a journey, but finally I have my pro license and I'm ready to go.
Grant Wahl:
If I were to ask you what's your coaching philosophy and how do you want your teams to play, what would you say?
Jermaine Jones:
A lot of times, people would think that I'll come down and say I want to be aggressive and all that stuff, but it's completely the opposite. I want to control the game. We have counterpressing. I'm a person who focuses on three zones in the game. There's the zone one, zone two, zone three, and you have to transition between that. But I would say I want to control the game. I want to dictate, especially in zone three when we lose the ball. I want to counterpress.
Grant Wahl:
Why is it, do you think, I've always wondered this. The NBA, there's no such thing as coaching licenses, but at elite level soccer, they require them and a lot goes into it. Why do you think soccer is different from the NBA?
Jermaine Jones:
I don't want to compare everybody. It's their own business, but I can say in the first place, I was thinking when I retired that it would be easy coaching, but it's not. I always say that people should go through that journey of doing their license and finishing up their license and especially the highest one. It's a journey. The contacts you see again, the people you meet, the stuff you learn, it just helps you. It's not against anything, it's just helping you to be ready for that first job.
I had offers and talks with people when I retired and I just had my UEFA A license, but I'll be honest, I was not ready, because I was ready to go on the field, but would have to need an assistant who runs everything, and that's not what I want. If I'm in charge, I want to give the people the ideas and the philosophies what I said that they understand exactly, and I'm on the page to know, okay, that's what I want to play. That's what I'm giving out to all other people. Instead of I'm just the face and somebody else has to run everything because I have no idea.
Grant Wahl:
In your playing career, you played at the highest levels in the World Cup, in the UEFA Champions League. Where do you want to go with coaching? Do you want to go to those high levels?
Jermaine Jones:
You always reach for the highest, but I'm realistic and I said I'm a young coach, I'm just starting. But my goal is, of course, at one point to coach a top team in a top league or in a top environment. But realistic right now, it's just step by step, seeing what comes next, and just learning. Take it as a journey.
Grant Wahl:
Now you also are doing a mentorship program, among other things, with young players and coaches. Could you explain a little bit more about what that is about?
Jermaine Jones:
Yeah, so when I started coaching, especially with the U-19s, I saw that there's a lot of kids in the system who relate to the same lifestyle, the same background where I came from, and sometimes we don't understand them, and that's when I stepped in. A lot of the kids put their hands kind of like, oh, he's somebody like us. I connected straight with them and I became the assistant coach, but then maybe I would say like a big brother, too.
I said, hey, how can I create something where I can be more powerful and support them in making right decisions with agents, when they pick clubs and all that stuff. Because I want to coach, I don't want to be a manager or an agent, so I say, how can I do that in a mentorship program with something? When I looked into it, I was like, oh that's interesting, because you can be like the coach, the mentor, the big brother. That was something I looked more into, and now I'm working to get it done and I'm really excited about it.
Grant Wahl:
Obviously, we saw you on ESPN during World Cup qualifying doing TV analyst work. We've seen you on other TV platforms. Which do you enjoy more, coaching or media?
Jermaine Jones:
Oh, I made it pretty clear from the beginning. I said to everybody, I want to coach. I like this part on coaching, this player management and sitting in the room cutting games and doing all that stuff. I love TV, too, don't get it wrong. It's really enjoyable and it's still connected to the game, so I can still cut games. Most of the time, I did U.S. Soccer games, so I know the players, I know the philosophy of Gregg Berhalter and the idea he wants to play. It's interesting, too. I would say they're pretty close to each other, but being on the field is more my world.
Grant Wahl:
I know you're doing some work for U.S. Soccer now, so I'm not sure how comfortable you are being asked about the senior national team, but I'll ask anyway. How are you feeling about the U.S. men's national team right now with the World Cup starting in November?
Jermaine Jones:
I'm out there, so I will anyways talk about them because I’m calling games of them at the World Cup. But no, I feel really comfortable to talk about it, because I believe in that group, and that's a young group and we’re watching games now, Saudi Arabia or Japan. We all know it's not the easiest games, especially now before the World Cup players are maybe careful because of injuries. That's always in your mind. People have to understand that, especially if you are coming that close to the World Cup. It doesn't matter if you play for your club or for the country. People are careful. But I think you will see a complete different face at the World Cup. I think the team is young. With Gregg Berhalter, I think we have the right coach. He understands the philosophy of U.S. Soccer. He adds his own thoughts into the game.
I think what you can see is that we over the period of qualification games that I was at a game we love is if we can sit and break, we’re maybe not a team who like to control the game, but you can see the games when we played against Jamaica or Costa Rica and we have to do the game, we struggled a little bit. But then if the game is like Mexico where Mexico is maybe making the game and we can just break on them, it's something the young group maybe likes more, but I feel comfortable that they're going into this World Cup and will crush it.
Grant Wahl:
One question I've had at times with this U.S. team is, is there a Jermaine Jones on this team, a guy who puts some fear into opposing teams? Do you think there is, and who is it?
Jermaine Jones:
I don't wanna compare myself that there's somebody else like me, because I don't believe there is somebody with the personality like me. I don't want to say something bad about people, but I think the closest one you can say is Weston [McKennie], who is coming close to that. But you have a lot of talent. The group is packed with good, good players, and maybe they're not like Jermaine Jones, but they have different qualities.
Sometimes I always say, we had this conversation I think with Hérculez Gómez and Kasey Keller and Seba on set that we say, sometimes you need somebody who just steps in and gives that little bit, that woo going through the group, because people are like, oh okay, he's there. But they're still a young group so you never know how they build it up. But I'm looking forward, and I think it will be a good World Cup for them.
Grant Wahl:
What sort of media are you going to be doing? Has that been announced yet in Qatar?
Jermaine Jones:
Yeah, I will be definitely on set and calling U.S. games for sure.
Grant Wahl:
Nice. I'm looking forward to that. Whenever we find out who that's for, that's awesome news. Great to hear. I'm going to be in Qatar myself as long as I get my clearance to get into the country, which fingers crossed. Are there any U.S. players that you would like to see get more playing time with the national team than they are right now?
Jermaine Jones:
I think that the guys are really, when I look at Adams is doing a good job now in Leeds. I think he's the heart of this team. If he's on 100%, I think he can dictate the team in a positive way in the front and in the back. You have all the big guys playing. I think you have to look now with Christian, with Chelsea, if he's getting time over there to get him happy for the World Cup. Then I think there's…? What's his name? In Union Berlin?
Grant Wahl:
Yeah, Jordan Pefok.
Jermaine Jones:
Pefok, yeah. I think he's somebody we should have on the radar because of what he's doing over there. He's first place with Union Berlin in the Bundesliga, and he scores and he's playing good. I think that's somebody I think would be interesting to see at the first team.
Grant Wahl:
Most of these young U.S. players have not played in a World Cup before. You have played in a World Cup. What advice would you give to these young U.S. players right now?
Jermaine Jones:
I would say just suck it in. Take every game as your final game. It's the biggest tournament. It's the biggest party in the world, and you are part of it. That's something I always told myself, that it's not the people just in the stadium, it's millions of people watching you playing. You just can't see the videos when you see the fans back home with how they party everywhere and they have the events out there and the public viewings and all this stuff. That, as a player, you have to know, and then come on, you represent your country in front of millions of people, so there's nothing better. At the end it's a game. Go out, enjoy it, have fun with it. You battle with the best and if you want the best stage, now you’ve got the best stage and now it's on you.
Grant Wahl:
I can't believe it's been eight years since you played in the 2014 World Cup, and that was the last time the U.S. men have played in a World Cup. What are the things that stand out the most in your memory of your experience of that 2014 World Cup?
Jermaine Jones:
I would say it was everything. The moment you travel over to Brazil and you build this brotherhood with your teammates, because you know it's just on you. The guys who are in the bus, the guys who are traveling now over to Brazil at the time, it's on you. People ranked us that we would not come out of the group and all that stuff. You’re like, okay, let's build something. Let's be strong, focus on the first game and see where we can go. There was a lot of talk behind the team is not good enough, this, this. That builds a brotherhood, and I think that was something I loved, and still talking with a lot of guys. It's what you said. It's crazy if you look back. It's eight years ago, and we’re getting so old so fast.
Hey, sometimes I feel like I can play again, but then I go on the field with the 19s and I feel like oh my god, my legs are gone. But it's something you look back and I just enjoyed this whole World Cup because my kids were there. I had the chance to play a World Cup in my career, what I said before. I had the blessing to score a goal, and that's all memories. People don't understand how quick, just because of one World Cup, everything can change in your life. People recognize you, and the soccer in general grew so much in this country since that World Cup. That's something we should all be excited for this World Cup now to support the team and help the team to come as fast as possible, because it's just to develop for our own country to get better in soccer.
Grant Wahl:
Last week I was in Spain and did an interview with Yunus Musah, who has chosen to play for the United States. He could have played for England or Italy or Ghana. You chose to play for the United States. You were eligible to play for Germany. Yunus and I got to talking about how he sort of tapped into his American side even more once he chose to play for the United States. Now that I think about it, I feel like you might have done the same thing. Do you feel like you tapped into your American side at the time you were playing and even until today a lot more once you chose to play for the U.S.?
Jermaine Jones:
No, he's right. I think at one point you really look, and I don't know his background, but for me, it was that I grew up with a German mom in Germany, so I had roots in America, but I didn’t really know where my roots are. If you would see me in Germany, people would say I'm not a German kid. I look more like an American kid, African American kid. So when I had the chance and I had the conversation with Bob Bradley, I always told him, I said, look, I've been not in touch with my dad for a long time, and if this can help me to come back in touch with him because he's in the States somewhere and I know my roots are laying somewhere in Mississippi, and I would like to play for this country, and I will put everything down to represent this country the best way I can.
At the time, I think I was one of the highest players. I played Champions League every year, and I make the switch and I don't look back and I look back now with a smile. And for me, it was the right decision to do it because I think I was the first one who switched countries to go and play for the United States. You can see what came after me. That's something good. We have grown as a country and we are getting better. There's so much going on in the soccer world right now in the U.S. and you see it with MLS NEXT Pro now and everything, what we develop and what we give into, it's just developing.
I said this already, in 2014 when I retired, I said when I came back to the States that if we’re smart enough here in the United States that we can create something really, really big and we can be one day at the soccer world the number one, because of the talent you have, the cities you have, the owners you have. You have people now, you see they're going over and buying Chelsea and Liverpool and Manchester United. You have people who are interested in the game, and it's just a matter of time that they invest their money to the teams here in the United States. I said this already in 2014, and a lot of stuff is coming exactly how I said it. Just back in the days people said, he's crazy. He's out of his mind.
Grant Wahl:
I get asked the question just in public a fair amount of: Will the U.S. men win a World Cup in our lifetime? I realize you can make a reasonable argument for yes or for no. One thing I do tell them is in 2002 the U.S. got to the quarterfinals and outplayed Germany and could have gotten even farther in that tournament. Your team got out of the group in 2014. Be honest, if someone asks you that question, will the U.S. men win a World Cup in our lifetime? What do you think?
Jermaine Jones:
A hundred percent. Why not? Why not? But to just win a World Cup, it's not just the teams we see right now, it's the basics. We have to look at what is coming. How strong is our youth system? How we develop our youth system, what are we doing in there. You can see now the market getting so strong that you have all these European teams coming over and trying to get our young talent to get them already earlier to Europe so that they can develop and be over there. That means that the whole package is starting to develop and getting more recognized in the world, and that means something. Of course we can win the World Cup at one point, and I'm sitting here and saying yes, and that should be our number one priority to say at one point we want to win the World Cup.
We don’t just want to be part of it. We are a big, big country. If you look at what I said, if you go to the youth systems and we are beating right now with the U-19s and we played England, we played top teams, and they had way more talent from the paper on the name because the kids played in big teams. But if you look at the quality of the players we have in the youth system, there's more and more coming. I think our first team is the youngest team going to the World Cup, so that's something, too. They will stick together for the last couple of years, and you would just add pieces to it to make them maybe better after the World Cup and then see if we get the best tournament and the biggest party back in our country, what can happen.
Grant Wahl:
Jermaine Jones is now an assistant coach for the U.S. Under-19 men's national team. He's also a TV analyst and the holder of a UEFA Pro coaching license among other things. Jermaine, it's always great to talk to you. Thanks for coming on the show.
Jermaine Jones:
Thank you for having me, my man.
I wonder to what extent US Soccer expects the U-19 coaches to adopt the senior USMNT's style of play. For example, if Coach Jones has the U-19 players to form a counterattacking team, would US Soccer say, "No, no Jermaine, the senior team builds out of the back. If the senior team is going to succeed, we need select and develop U-19s who have the strengths that match the senior team's style of play." Perhaps US Soccer has a certain style in mind for the whole pyramid, one that transcends the tenure of a single USMNT coach?