The Interview: DaMarcus Beasley, Oguchi Onyewu and Mabricio Wilson of The Crack Podcast
The Interview: DaMarcus Beasley, Oguchi Onyewu and Mabricio Wilson of The Crack Podcast
The USMNT and Clothing Legends On Their Podcast, the Current USMNT, Their Anger at MLS Teams Ignoring Black Candidates for Executive Pathways and Much More
The Interview: DaMarcus Beasley, Oguchi Onyewu and Mabricio Wilson of The Crack Podcast
One of my favorite listens in my rotation is The Crack Podcast, co-hosted by USMNT legends DaMarcus Beasley and Oguchi Onyewu and Futbolr Clothing co-founder Mabricio “Mookie” Wilson. They have great chemistry and engaging opinions and have had terrific interviews with some of the biggest names in U.S. soccer, including Christian Pulisic, Midge Purce, Weston McKennie, Clint Dempsey and many more. I thoroughly enjoyed our recent conversation on a number of topics that I think you’ll find interesting. (Part of our discussion was about the USMNT and took place before the injuries to Weston McKennie and Gio Reyna.)
The entirety of the written interview below is reserved for paid subscribers. As always, you can still get the entire free audio version of my podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to go for your pods.
Grant Wahl:
Our guests now are each legends in their own right, and they now host one of my favorite podcasts together. DaMarcus Beasley is the only U.S. man to play in four World Cups and had a 20-year club career. Oguchi Onyewu played in two World Cups and had a 16-year club career. Mabricio "Mookie" Wilson is the co-founder of Futbolr Clothing. They host The Crack Podcast, which you should subscribe to. They've had some amazing guests and just started season three. Guys, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming on the show.
Oguchi Onyewu:
Thanks for having us on, Grant.
DaMarcus Beasley:
Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Grant.
Grant Wahl:
Now we’ve got a lot to talk about here, and we’ve got three guys I'm interviewing. So I definitely want to make sure everyone gets touches, but you guys have great chemistry, so I think we can do this. I just wanted to start by asking how did your podcast get started, and what were your goals with it?
“After retiring I reached out [about potential executive pathways] to over 12 MLS clubs, which either never hit me back, or some were like, “No, you don’t have enough experience.” So I’m thinking, “Okay, this is a person who had a 16-year career, speaks multiple languages, he’s educated, but you’re saying he doesn’t have enough experience versus [white former player] X, Y, Z, who just stepped in there from playing or untying his shoes?” Sometimes it’s so blatant and flagrant, it’s frustrating and it’s upsetting. DaMarcus, right? He’s doing great things in the USL. This man should be doing great things in a top club in MLS, period. Whatever he’s doing, not to belittle the USL, but everything he’s doing there, he should have already had the opportunity in the MLS to do something like that. I can give you multiple examples, but we don’t have enough time on this podcast.” — Oguchi Onyewu
Oguchi Onyewu:
Go ahead, Mookie.
Mabricio Wilson:
This is the only touches I get [laughs]. But The Crack, we got started, and started thinking about doing something in the summer of 2019. We got together, I've been doing media for some time now, and we've been friends for over 15, 20 years. And we felt that U.S. soccer needed some type of landscape, or some type of media that really spoke to a different audience. And the audience we wanted to speak to is an audience that really didn't care maybe so much about the technical aspects of the game or what boots somebody wore, or how many shots somebody was taking, but a little bit lighter note, more opinionated, and came from a perspective from the players' point of view.
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We first started out with maybe four or five footballers that we got together and realized that was too many people to be on one platform and too hard to schedule. We started using different software. When Zoom came out, it made it a little bit easier, less feedback, less echo, better reception, and really was Gooch, one day, 2020, he was like, "Listen, I think football is played in the triangle and I think yourself, me and..."
Oguchi Onyewu :
Bease. This story changes every time! [laughs]
Mabricio Wilson:
Myself, me and Bease is better. Because initially, Grant, we had seven of us. It was a lot and Bease would talk too long, other people wouldn't get a chance to speak. And again, we wanted to develop something that was just a different voice in U.S. soccer. We pulled the trigger, and we started to do it in 2020. And we’re three seasons in. It's been fun.
Grant Wahl:
I've really enjoyed it guys. I listen to it regularly. You get amazing guests. It's fun to hear your opinions and your interactions with each other. Why is it called The Crack Podcast?
Mabricio Wilson:
Gooch.
DaMarcus Beasley:
Yeah. Gooch, you made the name.
Oguchi Onyewu:
You’ve got to listen to episode one [laughs]. So like everything, you try to find a catchy name, try to find something that resonates with what you guys are doing. We had a multitude of, what about this, what about that? And one day I was like, "What about "The Crack"?" You know, which could signify a multitude of things. In Spain or in Latin countries, when you call someone "crack", they're like, "Oh, he's a really good soccer player." Or you say something is "the crack", that's something really, really good. You want to get a hold of whatever that person has. I just felt like, it's short, it's memorable, and it doesn't take too much effort to say it, so those are the best elements in terms of branding and naming. They agreed with it. The trifecta went through, and I didn't get vetoed.
DaMarcus Beasley:
That's probably the first time you didn't get vetoed, by the way. [laughs] Any ideas these fools bring up. I'm like, "Nah." I shut it down. I shut it down real quick.
Mabricio Wilson:
He kicks the ball out of bounds every time.
Oguchi Onyewu:
Every time, every damn time.
Grant Wahl:
Well, you've had I mentioned some great guests, you've had, including Clint Dempsey, Weston McKennie, Christian Pulisic, many others. I know what my favorite moment of your podcast has been, but what are your favorite moments on the pod so far?
DaMarcus Beasley:
I mean, I'll take this one first, and I actually thought about this to be honest. I even went back and scrolled through, listened to some of our old shows and I'm-
Oguchi Onyewu:
You did homework?
DaMarcus Beasley:
I did homework. I did some homework. I put it in three categories. For me, this is my opinion. I think my funniest show was Weston, for sure. I thought his energy, his personality, our interaction together, it was a good show and it was pretty funny. I thought the most informative and deeper interview, Troy Deeney, for sure. I thought when he spoke about obviously his upbringing, his childhood, and what he went through to get to where he’s at now, I thought that was really special for him to come out and open up to us like that.
And as far as inspirational, I think Lincoln Phillips. So those three for me are my... But I put it in categories. I didn't want to say my best one or, this one moment, I wanted to at least capture it in those three. Those are my top three.
Grant Wahl:
For listeners who don't know who Lincoln Phillips is; one, you should, two, he coached Howard University to the national championship-
Oguchi Onyewu:
Two national championships.
Grant Wahl:
I know, but this was the first story I ever wrote at Sports Illustrated. But yeah, 1971, which they should have been celebrating the 50th anniversary of recently. NCAA took it away, basically: 'racism'. This was the first historically Black college to win an NCAA Division 1 title in any sport. They came back in 1974, won the title again, NCAA didn't screw them that time. But he's a legend. That was a very cool episode.
My favorite moment, by the way, of your podcast has been when Weston McKennie mentioned that he had a live-in personal photographer, and there's a little bit of a pause. And then DaMarcus was like, "Hold on a second, you have a live-in personal photographer?" And hilarity ensued. But lots of good moments. How about you guys? What do you think are your favorite moments of the show?
Oguchi Onyewu:
Since Bease went with the whole category... I'll say that my favorite guest was Lincoln. I grew up, I knew Lincoln from this area, the D.C. area. I think it was an honor to have him on the show and actually hear his insight towards this current generation. That was my favorite guest. My favorite moment was when Christian [Pulisic] clapped back at Mookie, because I thought that was hilarious. Because Mookie wasn't waiting for that. I think the realest guest we had was Clint [Dempsey], because he had taken a long hiatus from anything, and he came back, and Clint's going to be Clint and he's just going to speak from the heart, and just say his piece. Those are my three categories.
Grant Wahl:
How about you, Mookie?
Mabricio Wilson:
It's like asking, you know about your kids, right? Which one of your kids do you like the best? Having to work and produce these shows, I like them all. So I'll probably go back a little bit further. It was a huge honor for me to talk to [Jurgen] Klinsmann. I thought that was pretty cool. I think a lot of people overlooked that conversation.
Ah, man, it's so hard. I mean, we had an NYPD police officer during the pandemic, and I thought that was incredible too. We can't leave out the ladies like Sydney Leroux, Ali Krieger, so we have had some phenomenal guests. I love them all, Grant. I love all my kids.
DaMarcus Beasley:
This is normal. This is what he does. This is what he does.
Oguchi Onyewu:
Exactly what he does.
Grant Wahl:
From your experience so far, what makes for a good interview, and how do you create those conditions?
DaMarcus Beasley:
I mean, obviously, we have to agree on a guest, and the guest has to agree to come on the show, but-
Oguchi Onyewu:
We don't always agree on guests.
DaMarcus Beasley:
Yeah, we don't. We do not, we do not. But we always have the majority kind of rules over anything else. But anyway, one thing we try to do is make the guests feel comfortable, because it's not more of an interview, it's more of a conversation. It's not just question, answer, question, answer, question, answer. We'll add our experiences, or add something that went into whatever they were talking about that time, or we'll go a little bit into their past, but not as much. We just try to make them feel like a friend, like a friendly moment. Because I'm not a media guy, you know what I'm saying? So when I ask-
Grant Wahl:
Yeah you are.
DaMarcus Beasley:
Nah, nah.
Mabricio Wilson:
Thank you, Grant, thank you. [laughs]
DaMarcus Beasley:
Mookie gets on me all the time about this. I'll often reach out to somebody, right? It could be an old teammate or something. I'll reach out and say, "Hey, would you mind coming on the show?" And they'd be like "Ah, we'll see." And I'm done, there's no second [approach], "Oh, what do you think about this next week? Or blah, blah, blah." I was a player, so I put myself in their shoes. And they're like, "Yo, have you asked them again?" I'm like, "Nah, they said they’d get back to me." So I'm not very persistent. I let Gooch and Mook do the whole asking the guests and the players or whoever. But yeah, I just think that we try to make it as fun and friendly and comfortable as possible.
Oguchi Onyewu:
I think what's separate... Oh, my bad. You want to go?
Mabricio Wilson:
No, I just want to add that Bease asks the best questions. Bease does his research. Don't act like Bease-
DaMarcus Beasley:
I do research. I do research. Yeah.
Mabricio Wilson:
Okay.
Grant Wahl:
You are media. What are you talking-
Oguchi Onyewu:
Listen, first of all, Bease was media before any of us were media. First of all. So don't get it twisted. But I will piggyback on what Bease was talking about. I think what makes our podcast a little bit unique is that throughout the beginning toward the end of the podcast, I think our guests forget that they're actually on one. So they find themselves just having conversations, laughing, joking, and just probably saying things freely that they might have not said otherwise. That's when you know you've gotten into your guest’s head and they're comfortable with you and you can just be free and talk whatever you want.
Grant Wahl:
My experience too, and I started this podcast toward the beginning of the pandemic, so we’ve almost hit 200 episodes, but it started in May of 2020. It helped get me through the pandemic, because twice a week I was able to do interviews, thanks to Zoom, with people from around the world or in the U.S., or wherever. And I personally, forget the work aspect for a second. I personally needed that interaction, because I wasn't interacting with too many people. I was wondering if you were finding the same thing.
DaMarcus Beasley:
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. We even had a... Gooch, I don't think you were on the chat, but we had a... what was it, Mook? The push-up challenge and we couldn't do nothing... We had little things that we could do.
Oguchi Onyewu:
They didn't invite me to the pushup challenge.
Mabricio Wilson:
No, because we wanted it to be a challenge.
DaMarcus Beasley:
No, we were like, exercise, keep us moving, keep us energized and our mentals on a good path. But Grant, you're a hundred percent right. Our podcast when we started... Little things like that helped us get through it, and together, because we're constantly talking, we're constantly trying to bring up ideas and seeing what this podcast could lead to. I definitely think we felt the same way in that aspect.
Grant Wahl:
I don't know if all our listeners are fully aware, we've seen Oguchi and DaMarcus on CBS, and you're on your podcast, but what are your day-to-day jobs in the soccer world right now? Each of you, if you could explain to our listeners.
DaMarcus Beasley:
Second secretary general?
Oguchi Onyewu:
Go ahead, Bease, owner. [laughs]
DaMarcus Beasley:
I guess I'll start. But yeah, I have a USL team in League Two at the moment, Fort Wayne FC. We are right now getting ready for our second season. I am part owner and director of football operations. That's day to day. I'm in from scheduling friendlies to the players and the housing, everything that goes into that job, that's what I'm doing. And at the same time I try to keep my ear out for the marketing side, sponsorships, all those different things that make the club what it is and what it's going to be based on, our foundation. I have a big voice in that as well, because we're starting from scratch. We have a blank canvas, to be honest. So making sure we get that part right and represent our city in the right way. We have a couple different voices that make those decisions, and I'm one of them. Day to day, I'm the director of football operations for Fort Wayne FC.
Grant Wahl:
Oguchi, what are you doing? I didn't realize you were living... Are you living full-time in Belgium?
Oguchi Onyewu:
Full-time, full-time, full-time. What do I do?
DaMarcus Beasley:
Can you say your title? Can you say your title, please?
Oguchi Onyewu:
Can I speak? [laughs] Can I even get two words out? So football. So I'm here in Belgium, the Secretary General, for people that don't know that title, it's basically the equivalent of a CEO for any organization, of Virton, here in the Belgian second division. I got this opportunity back in August, and it was a huge honor to actually be offered it. I said, let me move my way back to Europe and get this experience and re-acclimate myself to European football and lifestyle. So I'm here doing that. I'm obviously doing The Crack. I'm on the U.S. Soccer board of directors, so meetings every day, especially with the elections coming and up next month. Obviously doing CBS, whenever the national team plays, we record that with me, Charlie [Davies], Clint, Kate Abdo, and Mo [Edu]. And what else am I doing? Onyx, my sports performance company that I’ve got going on in Richmond, Virginia, and the D.C. area. So a lot of different plates to balance.
Grant Wahl:
How about you, Mookie?
Mabricio Wilson:
I'm the co-owner of Futbolr Clothing since 2009, a soccer lifestyle brand. F-U-T-B-O-L-R clothing company. I'm also a coach and a trainer here in New York. As well as I sit on the leadership board for the Black Soccer Coaches Advocacy Group. And I have some other things that have nothing to do with football, but we are all constantly busy and at the same time trying to schedule guests gets a little tricky, especially if you all have different time zones. During the pandemic, us getting a chance to sit still definitely made it easier, but now it gets a little bit more difficult. We have to call Bease's secretary, Gooch's driver [laughs]. But it's been great.
Grant Wahl:
So I want to bring up a topic that has finally been getting a bit more attention maybe in the last year or so, and should have been for a lot longer than that. And that is that MLS in particular still has embarrassingly few Black coaches and front office executives. You guys are executives. What are your thoughts on that? And is that something that you would've been interested in doing in MLS, but that didn't seem to be on offer? Or what's your perspective on that?
DaMarcus Beasley:
Gooch you go.
Oguchi Onyewu:
No, I say let Mookie. Let Mookie take it.
DaMarcus Beasley:
I was looking at your face.
Oguchi Onyewu:
I say let Mookie take this first.
Mabricio Wilson:
No, no, no, no. Grant, one of the reasons also for myself to start The Crack is that, as a whole, and as people, we've been very frustrated at not getting opportunities at being relevant. I always felt as a person who comes from a marketing background and from media that these two gentlemen, if they kept themselves in the media, kept themselves out there, that it would maybe help them get a better opportunity of people not just forgetting about them. I think as a friend, but also as a fan, I think it's very disrespectful that they don't get the opportunities that they deserve. Because these two gentlemen work hard. Gooch went back, finished up his degree and has several businesses, always stayed busy. DaMarcus has been involved in the youth program in Indiana even before he retired and has constantly worked within the spectrum of U.S. soccer.
And these two gentlemen are humble. And let's be honest, let's talk about it. When I ask these guys, they don't get the phone calls that I see others that get phone calls after their career is over. People always have excuses. It's just a sad thing to see. People like [Colorado coach] Robin Fraser, we have to kick and scream to get him back to a head coaching job. But these gentlemen want to be executives, or they want to be coaches. We need more people like that in the front offices. We need more people as presidents, as scouts, sporting directors, and who's better than these two gentlemen who represented the country in the World Cup? I don't know.
Grant Wahl:
It's wild to me. I know exactly how much you've achieved in your careers, on off the field. I remember all sorts of stuff, guys. I remember living in Boston, it was 2004, back in the days when it was really hard to find Champions League on television anywhere, and having to search around the city to watch DaMarcus's PSV game in Champions League. And they went to the freaking semifinals that year. I think about how much attention that would get today, and how it basically got no attention in the U.S. back then. I wrote about it for a web column or something, or what you guys were doing, what Oguchi was doing at club level in Europe being with Milan and-
Mabricio Wilson:
Winning championships, Grant. These guys, they didn't just play in Europe, they won championships.
DaMarcus Beasley:
I mean, for me, I'll step in for a second, that stuff doesn't bother me, to be honest. Because you can look at the social media, the media coverage, what it was back then, I'm talking about U.S. coverage, to what it is now. How big the league has grown, as far as everything, infrastructure, stadiums, money, whatever.
But just going back to your original question, and not to always beat a dead horse, but I think it's always an opportunity to talk about it, because we didn't get those calls. I see time and time again where players, regardless of their careers, if they're better than ours or lesser, they step in right to assistant sporting director, or assistant GM, or something else.
Oguchi Onyewu:
Some of them step into assistant coach without coaching licenses.
DaMarcus Beasley:
Yeah. All those different roles. We don't get those calls. I never received a call to step into a role like that in an MLS environment. So it is disappointing, especially now, and I said this the other day, if you look around, especially at today’s men’s national team. How many Black players are on that team? But you look around, and this is the team that's representing our country. And you look around and you go to MLS, because that is the league that a lot of these players came from—not all, but some—and it doesn't reciprocate. And it's like, why? Why aren't we getting those opportunities?
I just think that things that Guchi is doing now, I know it's in Europe, but it's important. Robin Fraser having a great year at Colorado, but coming up a bit short is important. E.Z. [Ezra Hendrickson, the new Fire coach], now he's in Chicago, it's important. All these different, these small wins, it's hoping that we can progress and get to where it is not about the color of the skin, but it's about who's actually the better person for the job.
Oguchi Onyewu:
So, okay.
Grant Wahl:
Where are you on this, Guchi?
Oguchi Onyewu:
How do you follow up? No, Bease is spot on. I think that obviously people can speak about our presence and what we did on the field, and that speaks for itself. Bease is a legend in his own right, and think I had a fairly decent career. So when people speak of us and our names, they'd say "Oh, the players, they were this, they were that." Okay, great. But then afterwards, where are we? I can personally say that after retiring I reached out to over 12 MLS clubs, which either never hit me back, or some were like, "No, you don't have enough experience." So I'm thinking, "Okay, this is a person that had a 16-year career, speaks multiple languages, he's educated, but you're saying he doesn't have enough experience versus X, Y, Z, who just stepped in there from playing or untying his shoes?"
There has to be some kind of discrepancy... Sometimes it's so blatant and flagrant, it's frustrating and it's upsetting. There definitely need to be strides in the future to remedy that. I don't think that they have totally yet, to the point where... DaMarcus, right? He's doing great things in the USL. This man should be doing great things in a top club in MLS, period. Whatever he's doing, not to belittle the USL, but everything he's doing there, he should have already had the opportunity in the MLS to do something like that.
I can give you multiple examples, but we don't have enough time on this podcast. I do think that there are countless examples where, we look at our counterparts, who we love, and... Shoot, I'll even call one out. We spoke to [new LAFC coach] Steve Cherundolo on our podcast. And we asked him, we said, "Steve, you had a head coaching job for one season, and then you just got the LAFC job." We asked him why he thought he was the right man. And he answered it great, grand, wonderful. And I love Steve, I think he's going to do a great job, but how many other teams in the MLS can say that they've given that opportunity to a person of color? I don't think so. To my knowledge, that kind of opportunity has never come up in the history of the MLS to any Black or brown person.
Mabricio Wilson:
I think, Grant, what's important is that it's not just about a coaching position as well, right? It's president, sporting directors. Being in the top offices has to have a little bit more diversity. I think that's where there’s a failed opportunity, because these two gentlemen, they didn't want to be on the sideline. They wanted to be in a different type of position that they didn't have when they played in the MLS, or having somebody from a minority background in those positions. Again, crickets, and that's frustrating to hear.
Grant Wahl:
Now what's crazy is there are 28 teams even in MLS this season, there's going to be 30 teams in MLS, I think next season, season after? That's a crazy number of teams for a soccer league, by the way. But that means also there should be a lot of opportunities, and we've had Sola Winley, the head of DEI for MLS, come in on my podcast and talk about what they're doing. And some of it sounds encouraging, promising. Where are you on what MLS has actually been doing over the last year or so? And there's quite reasonably some hurt I'm hearing from you about what's happened in the past. Are you at a point where if opportunities in MLS front offices or coaching presented themselves, that you might be like, "Uh-uh (negative). Like, I wanted this a few years ago, but not now."
Oguchi Onyewu:
For me. No. I think if given and offered, or presented the right opportunity, there'd be no question to look into it, because that's the only way that you open doors for other people that look like me, is to get in those positions, and to open more doors for those other people. I think that MLS is definitely trying to make the right move, and hiring Sola and changing their whole hiring process is definitely a great step. But now we have to see the end result. We have to see the results from these steps and the hirings and things like that. Like you said, there's 30-some teams that are going to be next season, and that just means more opportunities. But what happens a lot of time, once you know of an opportunity it's already too late, because they've already filled it by the time that you've heard about an opening. That's one of the things, access to information about knowing what is available, who's looking for what, and not just after the fact.
DaMarcus Beasley:
I think another thing is holding these clubs accountable. I think that if MLS obviously is the godfather, and they have the end say on basically any deal or anything that happens in the league, then they have to hold these clubs accountable for their hiring process, who they're reaching out to, making sure they're getting the right candidate for the position that they're looking for. Someone that really has that role, going around to the clubs, "Okay, who'd you interview for the head coaching job? You guys have an opening at GM? Who'd you interview? I want to see the names, I want to...", obviously they're not going to be in the interview.
But you want to make sure that they're doing their due process in the right way that MLS is starting, progressing to set up as far as hiring processes. I just think that they have to hold the clubs accountable and hopefully they are doing that, from now until into the future.
Grant Wahl:
Well, we're seeing with NFL coaches these days and the recent lawsuit from Brian Flores. Not happening in the NFL. Apparently. You certainly hope that MLS is doing things better than that.
Oguchi Onyewu:
And that's a league, its players are 70% African-American, so if a league like the NFL, which is predominantly Black, if you can't even find any equity in terms of coaching or front office, it's very disheartening. We're hoping that, the MLS can-
Mabricio Wilson:
Especially when you know that MLS has a lot of NFL owners.
Grant Wahl:
Right, right.
Mabricio Wilson:
That's one of the models they took, right?
Grant Wahl:
Yep, while we've got Guchi on here, I do want to ask, I see you doing stuff on the Athlete Council with U.S. soccer, which is going to have a major role again, an even more major role than the last election, because they got 33% of the vote coming on this March 5 presidential election, and Cindy Parlow Cone is running as a former athlete to continue being U.S. Soccer president. The system finally is creating a situation where former players have a better chance than ever to become U.S. Soccer president. Do you ever have any interest in that?
Oguchi Onyewu:
To be U.S. Soccer president?
Grant Wahl:
Yeah!
Oguchi Onyewu :
Not right now. I just listed everything I'm doing. I ain't got no time for that [laughs]. No, but I think it's crazy to see how far it's gone from years ago. I remember when Sunil [Gulati] was president, we were at the U-17's and everything like that. Now to have Cindy there, it's great. Now the Athletes Council that has more power within their vote, it's a great thing to have. I hope that it promotes and that kind of gives a sign to other athletes, if you wish to do that, the sky's the limit, let's see what we can do.
Grant Wahl:
I did say to Cindy, she was on my podcast recently, and I said, it's kind of a thankless job, U.S. Soccer president. You don't get paid anything, it takes a lot of time, people are always complaining about you. She said, "At times? At times, it's a thankless job?" Then she proceeded to explain why she wanted to do it. It was still an interesting conversation.
Let's change gears just a little bit here. I want to get your thoughts on the U.S. men's national team and World Cup qualifying. This has been 11 games out of 14 are done. The U.S. is on track to qualify. It still could get a little dicey, the last three games. What are your thoughts on where the team is and the performances you're seeing?
Oguchi Onyewu:
Talk to Mookie [laughs]
Mabricio Wilson:
Let's start with the person that nobody cares what I think. We’ve got to be positive, right? I think the U.S., obviously, I think we're in a good position to qualify, but I think my stance is we shouldn't just be happy about qualifying anymore. It's 2022, and we are still like, "Oh, we just have to get in" in a region that we all know is not as tough as other regions, but we have the majority of the resources, so we shouldn't have an excuse not to be the top three. For me, I think that we have a great young group. I think it takes time for them to gel. I think that we missed out on having some veterans that can maybe help, with not qualifying in 2018... The last World Cup, 2018, to help us with these young players in the locker room off the field.
But we cannot deny we have a talented young group. I just think that... I don't want to put it all on Gregg [Berhalter, the U.S. coach], but something’s off that we are not getting the best out of this group.
You can't keep on saying "They're young, they're young, they're young." Because most national teams and most clubs have young talented stars. For me, I want to see better play on the field consistently. I want to see us stop trying to play in cold weather to try to beat teams like Honduras. That's just terrible. We’re trying to grow the game here, Grant, we’re trying to grow fans and stuff like that, so we need better attractive football. But I think we're definitely going to qualify. I think that we'll get it together to represent the country well in the World Cup.
DaMarcus Beasley:
I agree with a couple of things you said, not everything. I think one of the things, when you said that it's not about just qualifying for the World Cup. I mean, it kind of is, we didn't qualify in '18. So qualifying in '22 is going to be huge. It's not an automatic anymore, and I'm not going to go into countries getting better, us not... Whatever, that's not here nor there. But it is about getting to the World Cup because-
Mabricio Wilson:
I'm just saying with the resources that this country has, getting to the World Cup, it should be more about advancing past the group stages and also winning the World Cup-
DaMarcus Beasley:
It is. But the first step in that is qualifying for the World Cup. You can't take three steps forward... I think that was our problem in 2018, we were already looking at Russia, and we forgot about the game in Trinidad. I was on the bench. I was there. Probably one of the most disappointing parts of my career is not qualifying for the World Cup. I say that because off of your comment, you can't look past Mexico, Costa Rica and Panama. It is right now about qualifying for 2022. That's it.
Mabricio Wilson:
I can look past Costa Rica, they suck, I'm sorry. [laughs]
DaMarcus Beasley:
In saying that... The thing I did agree with, another thing that Mook said was, I would like to see more consistency, because we have not put out a whole 90 minute game. I mean a whole... A good game. We can't sit here and say that U.S. Soccer played a good game for 90 minutes. That hasn't happened in a while. Obviously with Mookie and what he's saying about the talented players and this and that... That is somewhat, I won't use the word disappointing but I'll say it's... What word can I use? I don't want to use disappointing because I'm not disappointed in the team or players, because they are really good, and they’re in the realm of qualifying for 2022. But-
Mabricio Wilson:
Do you think we’re getting carried away with who the player plays for? In terms of what club he plays for, rather than his performance, or what he's doing? Sometimes I sit back I think, and I see all these memes, or ads about all these jerseys, and all these players playing in Europe, but maybe shouldn't come... Maybe this would be over-hyping these players. You’ve got to maybe just give everybody opportunity.
DaMarcus Beasley:
I don't think we're over-hyping them. I worry about what they are doing in a USA shirt.
Mabricio Wilson:
Exactly. So if you come from MLS, if you come from-
DaMarcus Beasley:
I'm not a Chelsea fan, but I'm a Pulisic fan. I don't really watch Chelsea that much. But obviously I'll watch Man City [his former team]. I'm only talking about the U.S., what they do in this country to qualify for the World Cup. Yeah, it has been inconsistent. The players haven't got up to that level where you said, "Okay, they dominated this game. The opponent had no chance of winning." That hasn't happened. And the qualifiers are tough. We all know that. Gooch, you know it. Whatever. But at the same time, this week, or the next three games is going to be a... Man. Never won in Mexico [in a qualifier], never won in Costa Rica. And they’ve got Panama, who is a very good team. It's going to be tricky.
Grant Wahl:
Before we get to a Oguchi on this, I love seeing you on CBS and the broadcast of the away games, but I kind of feel bad for you sometimes, because the away games, it's almost like-
Oguchi Onyewu:
We always get the crap games. [laughs]
Grant Wahl:
It’s like the official channel of mediocre to bad U.S. performances.
Oguchi Onyewu:
Seriously. Every game we're on, they give us these gut-wrenching performances. And then as soon as they go home, it's like Alexi, Mo, and Stu [with Fox] are chanting and shouting. I'm like "Man, get out of here." But I mean you guys, if you've watched, you've heard my piece on the U.S. team. I think the frustration comes from understanding that this is probably one of the most talented groups of U.S. players that has ever been assembled. So when we see and we know of their potential and their capabilities, and they just fall to teams like Panama or Canada, you're just like, "Wait a minute. This guy plays for here. He plays for here. He's performing here. He's performing there. How come you can't do it in Concacaf?" Right?
I do believe they will qualify. I also believe that they've been fortunate enough to have results fall their way when they lose or they tie. Because it could have gone downhill real quick, early days, if Mexico had gotten results when they didn't, or Costa Rica, Panama, got results when they didn't. I think that these three games, and everyone's... They actually called me out on CBS because I told them, I was like, "If they don't watch themselves, they could find themselves in the exact same position as we were in four years ago, with everything coming down to the last game, if other results go in the direction that they're not supposed to go." So Mexico in Azteca has historically never been easy. Playing Panama is not going to be easy. These games are really the matches, the games that they really, the team, the coaching staff, actually U.S. Soccer in general, needs to really show their personality and show everybody why we believe in them so much.
Grant Wahl:
No, that makes sense. We're winding down here. Really appreciate you taking this much time, all three of you. There was a fun story recently, when I heard the players on the U.S. men's national team have actually been paying for two barbers from New York City to fly out for a couple of days every camp and cut hair. And it made me remember, I visited Eddie Johnson once when he was in Greece, and he flew in his barber all the way from London. Because he was on loan... Clint Dempsey had the same barber. They were friends. And I'm wondering, it made me wonder, I guess, how hard is it to get a good haircut in Europe, especially for Black guys?
Mabricio Wilson:
Well, Grant, can you mute DaMarcus Beasley's… [laughs]
DaMarcus Beasley:
That was the exact time I went bald, was in Scotland. I'm serious. I'm not bullshitting, that's the exact time [laughs]. So you're asking a question. That's a true statement. I am not kidding. That's a true statement. That's why I just started shaving it off, because I couldn't find a barber, man. In Scotland? Nah.
Oguchi Onyewu:
It's not to the point that you’ve got to private jet people over.
Mabricio Wilson:
Yeah. But that's very important, Grant. The same person has been cutting my head for 20 years. I introduced my barber to Jozy Altidore, and Jozy only uses him. So it is. A barber is part of our family.
DaMarcus Beasley:
Did Jozy fly him off to Europe, when he was over in Europe?
Mabricio Wilson:
No, I introduced him when he came back.
DaMarcus Beasley:
Oh, when he came back?
Mabricio Wilson:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
DaMarcus Beasley:
Oguchi, you got a barber in Luxembourg [province]?
Oguchi Onyewu:
Took me three and a half months to find the man [laughs]. Took me three and a half months. I swear. Because I was looking, I couldn't find it. I was like, "I know there's got to be a Black barber out here. I know there got to be." Because I didn't trust people with the scissors. I was like, nah.
Mabricio Wilson:
The Coleman scissors?
Oguchi Onyewu:
I didn't trust the Coleman scissors. I was like, get out of here.
Mabricio Wilson:
For the fade.
Oguchi Onyewu:
I saw my players come in with a fresh haircut. I grabbed him by the arm. I was like, "Hey!" He was shocked. I was like... he said "Yeah?" I was like "Where'd you get a haircut?" [laughs]
Mabricio Wilson:
"Give up your barber."
Oguchi Onyewu:
Exactly. He's like "Oh, it's in Luxembourg." I was like "Oh, okay, give me the address." That's how it happened. But it's not easy. It's not easy.
Grant Wahl:
Good to know. I'm going to do some serious investigative journalism and track down these two barbers from New York City and do a story about them. So I'm on the case. But only the hard-hitting stuff here.
Mabricio Wilson:
You can plug our barber for CBS. Dude's name is Troy. This boy be getting me, Mo, Charlie, Clint. Gets us nice.
Grant Wahl:
DaMarcus Beasley, Oguchi Onyewu, and Mabricio "Mookie" Wilson are the co-hosts of The Crack Podcast. It's an absolutely fantastic podcast. You all should listen to it and subscribe. Guys, thanks for coming on the show.
Oguchi Onyewu:
Thank you for having us, Grant.
Mabricio Wilson:
Thank you Grant.
DaMarcus Beasley:
Thanks for having us. Appreciate it, man.
Mabricio Wilson:
The legend.