The Interview: Casey Stoney
The San Diego Wave and former Man United coach on the budding USWNT-England rivalry, how the Euros changed English culture, how the Wave built an NWSL playoff team in its first season, and more.
LONDON — England hosts the USWNT in a sold-out Wembley Stadium on Friday. It’s the European champion against the World Cup champion, a showdown between the two favorites to win next year’s World Cup. One of the people watching most intently will be Casey Stoney, who played for England for 18 years before starting a coaching career that has included Manchester United and, as of this season, the NWSL’s San Diego Wave.
Stoney has some fascinating things to say below about the England-USWNT rivalry and how this past summer’s Euros has changed English culture. One of the things she said that stood out the most to me was her response to my question of why she wanted to make the move to coach in the NWSL:
“The biggest factor for me was that we were going to be a women's-only soccer team, not reliant on anyone else,” she told me. “And I've lived my entire career [in England], I would say, I call it living in the shadows, but it's not even living in the shadows. It's being almost fourth-, fifth-, sixth-best at times. So you can't use the gym because the under-15 [boy]s are in there, or you can't use that pitch because the under-12 boys are training on it. And you always felt like you had to fight for absolutely everything that you wanted on the basic needs for a team. And I felt that as a player, I felt that as a coach. And to come here [to San Diego] and have a team solely dedicated to its players, to be able to support, guide and give the players what they need to be able to perform, was the biggest reason I came.”
There’s a lot more good stuff below from our interview, which I hope you check out. The interview took place before the Yates Report was released on Monday.
The entirety of the written interview below is reserved for paid subscribers. As always, you can still get the entire free audio version of my podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to go for your pods.
Grant Wahl:
Our guest now is San Diego Wave head coach Casey Stoney, whose NWSL expansion team recently set an NWSL record for a crowded game with 32,000 people in a 1-0 win over Angel City. Casey, congratulations on everything you're doing, and thanks for coming on the show.
Casey Stoney:
Thank you. It's an absolute pleasure.
Grant Wahl:
What stands out to you the most about that record-breaking night?
Casey Stoney:
Well, I said it post-match in my press conference and I'm still probably coming to terms with it. I've been involved in the game a long time. I played for England for 18 years, played for many clubs, and I never even dared to dream that we'd have a night where we would walk out as a women's-only soccer team club and attract 32,000, all there to watch the team and get behind the team here in San Diego. So it was years and years and years of dreaming, but I didn't think it would be possible.
And I said it then, back in England we rely on the history of the men's clubs that we're attached to and their badges, so the Man Uniteds, the Arsenals, the Chelseas. To be able to do what this club has done in such a short space of time and attract 32,000 to the opening game at Snapdragon was absolutely incredible. And it just shows the thirst here for women's soccer, and what women's soccer can do, and the potential that it has. So I wasn't pleased with our performance but I was pleased with the win, and I was massively pleased with the evening itself and the way that the fans got behind the team.
“If I’m honest, I don’t think the U.S. have played a team that’s tested them in some time, and England will certainly test them. This England team has gone to another level now. What England haven’t faced is a frontline like America have got with the speed, the athleticism, the movement, the ability to score goals. But also, America haven’t faced England and how tactically good they are, and how they can score goals, and how they can open teams up. So I think it’s going to be a fascinating battle. And obviously a sold-out Wembley is going to be an incredible occasion.” — Casey Stoney
Grant Wahl:
Traditionally in American sports, not just soccer, expansion teams in their first season are not supposed to be very good. And your team has been good. How have you approached getting your team to play and win in this first season?
Casey Stoney:
Well, first of all, everybody told me that going into the regular season the expectations were low and that historically expansion teams hadn't done well. And I don't believe in that. I thought we set about getting a very good roster to start with. So I think as a club the general manager, Molly Downtain, has done a great job and obviously having Jill Ellis involved and her connections, I thought we managed to get a very good roster.
We still have a very young team. We have nine rookies in our squad, which is a lot. But I think if you set the right culture, the right standards, you get people to believe in what you're doing, your vision and where you want to go. And we're very lucky we've got an Alex Morgan that's in tremendous form as well and we've got an incredible goalkeeper and a fantastic roster. People can tell you all they want that you can't do well, but if you put the work in, you do the work every single day, which my players do and my staff do, anything is possible. But this league is so tight, it's absolutely crazy that you can be kind of near the top or at the top all season, two games to go and you could even fall out of the playoffs. It just shows how competitive it is.
Grant Wahl:
Well, that was going to be my next question. Everything is so tight at the top of the league right now. You've got six teams within four points of each other. Have you ever seen anything like this at the end of a league season?
Casey Stoney:
Never. And I speak to some of the coaches in the league as well, and it is just the most competitive, and that's obviously a massive selling point here is the parity part and how equal it is. And you look at the end of the season, you've worked so hard, and we've lost more games than I would've liked. I'd have liked us to be a little bit more comfortable where we are now, but I have to be patient with the fact that we're an expansion team, we're going to hit road bumps and we're going to have challenges. But to come to this point in the season and it be so tight, it's incredible for the fans and the neutrals. As a head coach, I'm not a fan of it because I'd rather be far more comfortable.
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Grant Wahl:
Here in the United States we decide the league champion with playoffs. How do you feel about that given your history, and what are the key areas for your team to be in top form for the playoffs?
Casey Stoney:
Obviously, it's very different for me. Normally you go for a season, and if you've won the most games you win the league. And it's different that you go for all of that and then you have to go again. But it's a huge part of the culture here, it's a huge part of the history here is the playoffs, and you want to go into it with some momentum. I think, obviously, we have to manage. We've got a tough away trip now against Orlando and then five days later we play North Carolina.
So we want to try and finish as high up the table as we can. I think that's important, as high up the standings. And then, we need to see what happens because we can't predict who we're going to get. Ideally, if we finish in the top two it would be great because then you obviously miss the quarterfinals and go straight to the semifinals. But having said that, we will face whatever comes our way, we'll plan accordingly based on the opposition that we get. And we know, pretty much now, we're capable of beating anybody on our day. If we can execute our game plan and get it right and the players execute, we're capable of winning any game.
Grant Wahl:
I want to take a bit of a step back and just ask why did you want to come to the NWSL? You had obviously coached Manchester United. This was a big move distance-wise and a different league.
Casey Stoney:
First thing, obviously, I was out of work having resigned at Manchester United. But when Jill phoned me about this opportunity, I think there were so many reasons to look deeper into it. One was the biggest factor for me, was that we were going to be a women's-only soccer team, not reliant on anyone else. And I've lived my entire career, I would say, I call it living in the shadows, but it's not even living in the shadows. It's being almost fourth, fifth, sixth best at times. So you can't use the gym because the under-15s are in there, or you can't use that pitch because the under-12 boys are training on it. And you always felt like you had to fight for absolutely everything that you wanted on the basic needs for a team. And I felt that as a player, I felt that as a coach. And to come here and have a team solely dedicated to its players, to be able to support, guide and give the players what they need to be able to perform, was the biggest reason I came.
I got to be really honest, Grant. I had to look up where San Diego was on the map because my geography of America was terrible and I realized it's right over the other side. It's an eight-hour time difference. And obviously, it was a life choice as well for my family and my children. Hearing about San Diego as a place, it would be an incredible change for us. And also as a coach, I wanted to challenge myself in a different league. I wanted to come and see if I could adapt to what my style was in England and try and bring a little bit of what I can do there, here, knowing that it's a very different league, that it is very transitional, that the players here would rather lose trying to win, which is a different mindset than in England. We would always take a point if it's available.
So it's been a massive education. Obviously, it's come with its challenges because of visa issues. My family aren't here and haven't been here since I've been here, so that's probably been the hardest thing I've ever had to do is live without them. But I think in those times and these challenges, it helps me grow as a person and it's certainly helped me grow as a coach. Because one of the things I did hear coming over here was that the players aren't coachable, they're entitled, and all of these nonsense statements that I can absolutely say are not true. They are so coachable, they're unbelievable at wanting to learn and wanting to do better, and they just want to win. They are absolute competitors, and it's a privilege to work with them every day.
Grant Wahl:
I'm sorry you're having to deal with visa issues for your family. I wasn't aware of that. Is that something that you're hoping to clear up before too long?
Casey Stoney:
It's solved now. They now have the visas. Now it's can we find a house and a school because I moved over myself so I didn't bother getting a big house and it didn't make financial sense to do that. So now it's about looking for a house that's suitable, because there's five of us, and get them in the right school because it's a huge culture change. I could be really honest, when I first landed in San Diego I was overwhelmed and I had moments where I was like, "What have I done?"
But as soon as I got into the job I was very motivated to do what I came to do, and now I just want to make sure it's right for my family, and that they can settle and they can be with me because it's the biggest challenge. It really is, and especially with an eight-hour time difference. Come 2 PM most days, I go home and I don't really have many people to communicate with because they're all asleep in bed. So it's been a challenge, but at the same time I'm very motivated by the job that I'm doing.
Grant Wahl:
How would you describe your coaching philosophy?
Casey Stoney:
My coaching philosophy is about people and it's about imparting your knowledge, but it's how you impart your knowledge onto the people that are in your room. Do you know your people? Do you build relationships enough that you can have those difficult conversations? That you can be open and honest and that you can add value no matter whether they're number one or number 26 on your roster. It doesn't matter.
And my coaching philosophy is about humility and the ability to own your own mistakes. And I try to role model that all the time because I'm not perfect, I am human, I do get things wrong and I own it with my players, alongside my players, and I want them to have a voice and empower them in my environment. And also I'm very much about standards. I always say that the thing that you are prepared to walk past is the standard you're willing to accept. And I'm very high on my standards. I won't accept sloppy standards, but at the same time I want to create an environment that's safe, fun, empowering, engaging, and developmental. Because every single one of my players still wants to develop. The minute they stop learning and wanting to develop is the day that they should hang the boots up. So my coaching philosophy is about relationships and value, and continuing to grow that.
Grant Wahl:
You mentioned Jill Ellis, who obviously won two World Cups as a coach with the U.S. team. What's your working relationship like with Jill? What aspects of the job is she involved in? How much communication do you have with her?
Casey Stoney:
Well, Jill's obviously the president, so she's been heavily focused on setting the business up and getting the marketing, the sponsorships, the ticketing, getting that side of things in the place where she wants it. She's pretty good at leaving me alone. She's there if I need her, if I want her knowledge. And obviously Jill's worked with international teams. I've worked with a club, so I've done this job before. I've done a startup, I've done building a club from the ground up. So I trust myself. If I need Jill, she's there. And she pretty much leaves me to get on with what I want to get on with. And obviously, she's done a fantastic job at driving this club forward, making sure we've got the right people in the right departments to be able to host a sell-out eight months into our existence. So she's doing a great job at a very different role for her. I'd say being a president is a very different role for her, but she's doing great at what she's doing.
Grant Wahl:
I was in Wembley to see England win the Euros at the end of July. It was an incredible scene. Really enjoyed following that tournament. What was that like for you to watch that?
Casey Stoney:
Honestly, very very emotional. We'd played Chicago the night before, and we were actually on a plane. And the whole week my team admin was panicking because she didn't know if we had TVs on the plane, and I was like, "I'm not getting on the plane if we haven't got TVs." And I've always said I'll always travel with my players, I'll always do the same thing my players do, but... So there was quite a few cheers when I was on the plane. And obviously, Jodie Taylor was on the plane, Carly Telford was on the plane, and we've all played for England as well, and obviously we've got a German player as well. So it was a little bit of rivalry there.
But I'll be honest, when the final whistle went, I just remember crying my eyes out, and I wasn't embarrassed about my emotion either because I'm like, I gave 18 years of my life and my entire life has been about growing the game in England and trying to make it better, and I knew when I was playing that we missed so many opportunities to change the game. And by England doing what they did, I don't think they just changed the game. They've changed a little bit of society too in England for women. And obviously, I've got two daughters now and I've got a little boy, and I just want them to be able to grow up knowing that they are his equal. And I think what those women did on that day kind of transcends into society, and I was just so massively proud of what they achieved and what they've done for not only women's football but women.
Grant Wahl:
I covered '99 here in the United States and I did make that comparison. It wasn't maybe exactly the same, but there were some similarities, it felt like to me, between what happened in 1999 here in the United States and what happened in England with women's soccer sort of transcending the sport this summer. Am I going over the top with that comparison?
Casey Stoney:
No, I think you're right. I think the narrative has changed, the conversation has changed. And little boys are now watching the women's game and were putting their names on the back of their shirts. And even the audiences, unfortunately, obviously the opening weekend of the Barclay's WSL didn't go ahead because of the Queen’s parting. But I think you look at the ticket sales and the attendances and what it's doing there, it's how you continue to capture that. How you continue to do the work in the wet winter months to keep these people coming back. How sponsors want to stay on board, not just jump on board for a major tournament, and how you continue to get investment at the top. And also at the grassroots level too, because what I've seen here in America is the depth and the pool of talent at the youth age groups is absolutely phenomenal.
Now, we don't have that in England and there's still an attitude of, "It's a man's sport", and "You shouldn't be playing", and "Girls don't play football." And I think what those women did in the Euros has changed that conversation, changed that narrative. Not for everyone, because you're going to always have some small-minded people that believe it's their sport and that women shouldn't be playing it. But at the same time, I do think it went a long way towards that. And hopefully, more little girls will now pick up a ball and play, more dads will encourage their little girls to play, more male PE teachers will actually say "No, we need a girls' team as well as a boys' team." And even moms will change their perceptions because I've heard, "Well, my little girl's not playing football." And I'm like, "Well it's sport and sports should be for all." So I think what they've done is huge in our country.
Grant Wahl:
On October 7, Wembley will be filled again, this time for a game between England and the U.S. women's national team, a friendly that I think sold out in 24 hours. What do you think about this sort of budding rivalry between England and the United States? What are your thoughts about this game and looking ahead to the World Cup next year when they could meet again?
Casey Stoney:
I think it's so exciting, and I'm excited to see this game because if I'm honest, I don't think the U.S. have played a team that's tested them in some time, and England will certainly test them. It'll be a test of how tactically good they are, and physically. I think historically when I've played against America, sometimes you just felt like there were 12 or 13 players because athletically they were so more advanced than we were. I know we beat them in 2011 when we played them on home soil in a friendly, I think it was 2-1. Alex Morgan was just coming on the scene at that point. And then, since then, they've been really competitive, tight games: in the SheBelieves and obviously in the World Cup, and they've been really competitive. But I think this England team has gone to another level now.
So I'm really intrigued to see that battle, see how it plays out, see the key battles in the areas because I think also what England haven't faced is a frontline like America have got with the speed, the athleticism, the movement, the ability to score goals. But also, America haven't faced England and how tactically good they are, and how they can score goals, and how they can open teams up. So I think it's going to be a fascinating battle. It's one I'm really looking forward to. And obviously a sold-out Wembley is going to be an incredible occasion.
Grant Wahl:
Casey, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Casey Stoney:
You're very welcome. Thanks for having me.