The Interview: Jovan Kirovski
The LA Galaxy Technical Director, the First U.S. Player to Win the Men's UEFA Champions League, On How He Became Perhaps the Best-Connected American in European Soccer
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It’s an unofficial title that can’t be verified with certainty, but Jovan Kirovski may be the best-connected American in European soccer. (His closest competition might be Charlie Stillitano, the organizer of the summer pre-season visits by top European clubs to the U.S.) Kirovski is in daily contact with Zlatan Ibrahimovic, the player he landed for the Galaxy and someone who has become a close friend. So has Mino Raiola, the famed superagent for Zlatan, Paul Pogba, Erling Haaland and so many other players.
I’m always fascinated by where Kirovski is when I contact him. Most recently, he was on another European trip, and I asked him if he’d come on my podcast when he came back. He said yes, and what resulted was a fun conversation on how Kirovski has built his global network. It helps that he brings his own playing resume, which included four years at Manchester United from 1992-96, a tenure at Borussia Dortmund that included winning the UEFA Champions League and Club World Cup and 62 caps with the USMNT.
“A player I played with at Fortuna Köln, Daniel Majstorović, played for Sweden, played for Celtic, he played with Zlatan, and it came through that … I went to Europe, [Zlatan] came here, and we built this relationship and I just pushed, pushed, pushed. He had a real interest in coming to the U.S. It was in his mind, but eventually we had the moment and the opportunity. It wasn't easy, because it took three years.” — Jovan Kirovski
Grant Wahl:
Our guest now may be the best connected American in European soccer. Jovan Kirovski is the technical director for the LA Galaxy. As a player, he was the first American to win the men's UEFA Champions League with Borussia Dortmund in 1996-97. He had a 17-year senior career with Dortmund, Manchester United, Sporting in Lisbon, and the LA Galaxy among others. He also played 62 times for the U.S. men's national team. Jovan Kirovski, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming on the show.
Jovan Kirovski:
Thank you. Thanks for having me. I enjoy listening to you all the time, and finally, to get a chance to be on.
Grant Wahl:
I am fired up that you actually listen to the podcast. That's awesome. Thank you for listening.
Jovan Kirovski:
I do. In my travels, I'm up at 2 am. I have jet lag and I'm on my run, and I listen to you, yes.
Grant Wahl:
I'm glad you listen. I just want to start, when I say you're the best-connected American, potentially, in European soccer, it's pretty impressive. You've been the point man for the Galaxy to land players like Zlatan Ibrahimovic, with everything that entails, as well as Chicharito Hernández, the Dos Santos brothers, Jelle Van Damme, Romain Alessandrini, the other French guys who've come to the Galaxy. How have you built your European network over the years?
Jovan Kirovski:
I think the main thing is my playing career. I played at many different places, many different countries. Most of the players that I've played with, they're either coaches, sporting directors, all around the world. From Germany, Portugal, here in the U.S. especially. Also, I started very young. I was in the national team at 18. So I have a huge amount of time with so many different generations. I've seen the Alexi Lalas, [Eric] Wynalda, [John] Harkes [era], then I've been through the reign of Landon Donovan era, the [DaMarcus] Beasley and [Carlos] Bocanegra era. So it's a vast amount of time that I've been able to connect with so many different people. My job today, I'm really connected, and it helps me so much in my job today, for sure.
Grant Wahl:
So at what point did you realize those connections that you had built in your playing career, could help you in the phase of your career when you became someone who was supposed to sign big-name players?
Jovan Kirovski:
It just happened naturally. When we were going after certain players, I would get information about players, and one thing always leads to another, "Oh, how do I get connected to Dortmund? Okay. [Sporting director] Michael Zorc. I played with him, boom." How do I get connected to Jelle van Damme? I had a player I played with at Birmingham City, a goalkeeper, who's an agent now, that's his player. So all those connections just keep going.
One of the things I keep track of now, is I keep connected. I travel a lot to Europe. When I travel to different countries, I meet all these people face to face. I stay connected, and those are the big things that are very important. I think keeping the relationships and keeping connected, because you never know. In any moment transfer windows, players move in and out, you have different lists, they're ongoing, they move, players come available, and you need your contacts then and there to make those kinds of moves. So I stay connected. And even South America as well, because I played with so many South Americans. So it's vital to keep connected.
Grant Wahl:
So I'm going to dive right in. I want to hear the story about how you built a relationship with Zlatan Ibrahimović, and his agent, who is no ordinary agent. It's the superagent Mino Raiola, a legendary figure in his own right. How did you build the infrastructure, the connections, the relationships to get that deal done? Are there some good stories from that whole process?
Jovan Kirovski:
It all started again with a player that I played with at Fortuna Köln, Daniel Majstorović, he was a center back, played for Sweden, played for Celtic, had a pretty good career. He played with Zlatan, and it came through that. We were speaking one day, he talked about him, and then all of a sudden, "Okay, yeah. How do we get connected? Let's start." And that started, the ball started to roll. We connected, I went to Europe, he came here, and we just built this relationship and I just pushed, pushed, pushed.
He had a real interest in coming to the U.S. It was in his mind, but eventually we had the moment and the opportunity. It wasn't easy, because it took three years. I knew maybe the first year we weren't going to get him, but I always stayed connected, and always waited for the moment. He had the major injury, which held him back, but that was actually one of the main things that helped him come here, because he wanted to prove himself here, and the moment just fit. But over time it was a connection again through a good friend who played with him.
Grant Wahl:
Do you find that people like Zlatan, like Mino Raiola, that it helps to have your personal history, having won stuff in the game in Europe, to get their attention in any way?
Jovan Kirovski:
So what, do you mean, sorry, did you mean my playing career in Europe?
Grant Wahl:
Yeah. Like what you had done in Europe? That they actually maybe took you more seriously as a result?
Jovan Kirovski:
Yes. And this is 100%, I have credibility. So when I go into, let alone, not even Zlatan, but every other player in Europe, they know I was at Borussia Dortmund, they knew I was at Manchester United. They know Sporting. They know these clubs. I played in the U.S., I played for the Galaxy. I know what it's like here. I know the transition. So this all gives me credibility when I'm selling, when I'm pitching.
Another, just to sidetrack a little bit, [Dejan] Joveljić is a young kid from Frankfurt we signed. He didn't really know MLS. Everybody in Europe is there, a lot of people are, they know MLS, but he didn't really know too much. But that helps, me coming over from Europe and coming back here, knowing what it's like, it's important. It's vital. It gives me an edge, it does. In recruiting, it gives me a real edge when I go talking to anybody and trying to recruit and bring players here. For sure.
Grant Wahl:
Another thing that I've noticed over the years. I think I may have made this point publicly when you were able to sign Chicharito for the Galaxy, is there's a lot of MLS teams that talk big privately when I talk to them about, "We want to get this guy." Or I had one, one guy was a co-owner of an MLS team, said, "We almost got Ronaldinho," back in the day. My response is like, "Yeah, but you didn't." And so getting signings, big-name signings over the line is something that I don't think anyone can argue that the LA Galaxy has done better than any other MLS team. I'm wondering what makes that difference, from being able to say, "We almost signed Ronaldinho," to, "We got Ibrahimović, we got Chicharito, we got these other guys?"
Jovan Kirovski:
Yeah, well, we have a lot behind the club, with the best owner in Mr. [Phil] Anschutz, and AEG. When we ask for something and it means something, they provide it. And it's great ownership, but then you look at what we've built with [David] Beckham, starting with Beckham. He put us on the map, then the success in winning, the history we have. It starts from there and we've become relevant here in LA. We've won championships, we're in LA. LA does help, but those things, to go over the line like you said, it helps the people that we have here.
With Chicharito, [Galaxy general manager] Dennis te Kloese was part of the Mexican camp. So he was a big part as well in this situation. [Galaxy president] Chris Klein's been here for years, and we've built this, we built the club in a way that there's relevance with the superstars we've had before, and the championships we’ve won, but there's also the players that are coming in. They see that it's happened before, they want to be here. And LA is a big part of it too. LA is a big part, but we have people here that recruit, that sell. We always want to be the best. I don't know if that answers your question, but it's those things put together.
Grant Wahl:
No, I think it does. And you mentioned Chris Klein, you mentioned Dennis te Kloese. Could you explain a little bit about the job descriptions for folks out there, and what each person is responsible for, including what you're responsible for?
“I ended up going with a youth national team to England on a tour … And a scout from Manchester United wanted me to come back in the summer. I had this dream already, I wanted to go to Europe. I wanted to be the best player in the world … I was fortunate enough to get a school visa to keep me there initially. I was [at Man United] four years from '92 to '96. And it was at that time, the class of '92, you had Beckham, [Paul] Scholes, the Neville brothers.” — Jovan Kirovski
Jovan Kirovski:
Well, with myself, it's scouting, recruiting and negotiating contracts. We all, with myself and Dennis and Greg [Vanney, the head coach], we work with Greg to support him in every way. We hired him with his vision we believed in, and our job is to support him and execute. Me in particular, my job is to execute, bring players to the table and execute on deals, execute on players that we believe in as a group. That's my job.
Grant Wahl:
And also too, the Galaxy has won a lot of championships in this league with star players. There've been some years when there've been star players, and the results haven't been as good. This year, the Galaxy is back near the top of the West, very much in playoff position at this point, with Greg Vanney in charge as the head coach. What's the difference, I guess, this year under Vanney? And what's your perspective on this as someone who's been in charge of getting the big-name stars?
Jovan Kirovski:
I think Greg is very clear on his vision and idea of soccer. His identity is clear on how he wants to play. Player profiling is so much easier when you have this clear way of playing. He's very collaborative when we bring in players, he's open. He's really impressed me a lot, Greg. I've known him as a player. I played with him. So he's a junkie, he's a thinker. He thinks of the game really progressively. And he's a great soccer mind. He really is. People, I don't think, give him enough credit. We're just getting started here, so we don't want to get carried away. But I think we have good things to come, more good things to come.
Grant Wahl:
What do you think is the difference between Chicharito last year, I know he was frustrated, and Chicharito this year, when I know he's had some injury issues recently, but seems to be on his way back, has scored a lot more goals already?
Jovan Kirovski:
It was challenging year for everybody with COVID [last year], he's coming into MLS. It's not easy. He had some things on the field, off the field, issues that he had to deal with. But this year his focus is top-notch. He's a great personality, great character, he's focused, and it shows. His first 10 games, the goals he scored, his work rate. He's great within the locker room. He's been fantastic. I think he's really focused on succeeding.
“If I was my agent, what I know today, I wouldn't have had me sign [at Dortmund] … I would go to [second choice] Ajax today, forget the money. Okay, it's a lot of money, but this is a different path for you … This is why today in my job, I can really advise people, because I've been there, I've seen it. I know what path to take to help you.” — Jovan Kirovski
Grant Wahl:
I want to step back a little bit here. Your playing career came at a time when there were fewer people in the U.S. paying attention to European soccer. If they had been, they would have been going nuts about you being at Manchester United in the early 1990s. What's the story there? How did you end up at Man United? And what were the highlights of your experience there?
Jovan Kirovski:
Well, I ended up there going with a youth national team to England on a tour. And it was this April springtime tour, and we played against Liverpool and Manchester United, Coventry, some of the teams in England, and a scout from Manchester United wanted me to come back in the summer. I had this dream already, I wanted to go to Europe. I wanted to be the best player in the world. I was like that, and we didn't have a league. This was '92. So there was nothing here. Really, for me, that was the only option. So I had an opportunity. I went and I was fortunate enough to get a school visa to keep me there initially. Manchester United, I was there four years from '92 to '96. And it was at that time, the class of '92, you had Beckham, [Paul] Scholes, the Neville brothers.
It was an amazing academy to grow up in. Alex Ferguson, to be under this leadership. And again, these kinds of things, I was a kid, but working at these clubs, or playing, gives me again, the connections that we spoke about before. The experience I have under Ferguson, I know I was in the academy, in the second team, but to see how he works, is important in what I do today. But the highlight was just being at a big club with fantastic young players. We had a great team, we had great players, and I see what a great player, what a world-class player looks like at 16, 17. So when I'm looking today at players that we have here, that helps me as well. I've seen a different perspective of soccer, because I grew up in these big clubs, which helps me today. It really helps me.
Grant Wahl:
Was it work-permit issues that made life difficult for you at Man United? What was the story?
Jovan Kirovski:
Yeah, so I had, at that time, and I think now it's more relaxed than it was then, I signed two or three contracts. Alex Ferguson tried to bring me there, tried to sign me. With the work permit rules, the strict rules they had, it's a bit complicated. The national team games were fine, because I had a young age, I had a lot of national team games. I had 20 games when I was 18. So those qualifications I passed, but certain ones, I didn't meet the criteria, which was kind of crazy at the time, an 18 year-old to be the highest-paid player at their club, that was never going to happen. Also some of the things that I had to go through were difficult.
So I ended up at Dortmund. [Man United] tried two or three times, and I ended up moving on. That was something that I regret, I wish I really had a chance to finish what I started there. I was in a good way, good form. I scored goals. I was rated highly, and I was one of them. So I grew up there. So, you'll get more chances. They wanted to give me a chance. They wanted me to succeed. So that's one thing that I wish I had an opportunity to do.
“[The Galaxy technical director job] was just an ideal position for somebody like myself, somebody who's played around the world, who has contacts everywhere. We were going in this way, and it was perfect … I love the business side. I love to negotiate. I love the hustle of it, and it just fit.” — Jovan Kirovski
Grant Wahl:
No, I can totally imagine. Why Dortmund? What went into the decision to move there?
Jovan Kirovski:
Well, it was, again, it was Ferguson, he had an idea that maybe I should go to Holland or Germany. There were two clubs that were interested, but maybe go for a year or two. He was maybe thinking to bring me back. But my first meeting was at Dortmund. The other one was Ajax. I went to Dortmund. I trained one session, after the session they had me in a room with my agent and they wanted to sign me. It was a contract that I couldn't refuse. It was something that I had to do. I didn't even go to Ajax. So they wanted me and then they showed it, and they paid me a significant amount. I had to do it. I had no choice. But looking back, if maybe I was advised properly, I don't think I would have. If I was my agent, what I know today, I wouldn't have had me sign there.
Grant Wahl:
Why?
Jovan Kirovski:
Because Dortmund at the time, it was a different Dortmund than it is today. We had Jürgen Kohler, we had Matthias Sammer, [Andreas] Möller, all World Cup champions, big players. And young players were not getting chances. We had a few, myself, Lars Ricken, and we had two or three, and we weren't getting chances to play. It was no chance. So that's where I would go to Ajax, today, forget the money. Okay, it's a lot of money, but this is a different path for you. So again, this is something, yeah, if I could go back ... This is why today in my job, I can really advise people, because I've been there, I've seen it. I know what path to take to help you. So again, it helps me in my work.
Grant Wahl:
That's important to remember that we're so used to seeing Dortmund now be this great producer of young talent and develop young talent. But it hasn't always been that way. It's good to get that reminder as well.
Jovan Kirovski:
Yeah, not at all. When we were, Dortmund, we won the Champions League. We were competing for the title. The year before I arrived, they won the title. It was really competing with Bayern. Now it's a young team, but you're not expecting them to win the Champions League. And we were at the time. So for a young player, it was impossible. To break into a team like that was impossible.
Grant Wahl:
So what was your experience like being on a Champions League winner when you weren't playing as much as you wanted to be?
Jovan Kirovski:
For a 20 year-old American? I was at Manchester United, so I've seen, for four years, I was at a big club. I went into Dortmund, I was hungry. Again, as I said before, I didn't want to just make it as a professional, I wanted to be the best player in the world. I had this kind of mentality, whether or not I was going to do it, okay. But I wanted to, I was at big clubs, so I had an opportunity. Going there was hard because I didn't play enough, but I was with these players that I used to watch on TV. The German World Cup, the Euro, they won everything. The Germans, when I saw all these guys, I'm training with them, in the locker room.
So I was buzzing. It was great to be there. And again, what I learned, how to be a professional. How I had to work every day and my character for the future, how to work in the future. Ottmar Hitzfeld was the coach, he's a legend. So I went there from Alex Ferguson to Ottmar Hitzfeld now. Again, how to work. In my job today, to be able to learn from these kinds of people, whether it's the players on the field, or the coaches, it really benefits me. It benefits me today.
Grant Wahl:
Do you still have your Champions League medal? Where do you keep it?
Jovan Kirovski:
I have it in a safe at the bank. The club [World Cup] one too. It’s crazy that when you see how many of our young kids are at big clubs, and how fast the last five years ... Because I would never think it was going to be so quick that Americans would break in, because it's hard to get opportunities. And we've grown so much the last five years, and to see Christian Pulisic, to see [Weston] McKennie at big clubs, to see [Tyler] Adams at Leipzig. It's great to see. It's something that, yeah, I think there's going to be more and more players that are going to be in this position. Yeah.
Grant Wahl:
I don't know if you remember the first interview that you and I ever did together, but I do. It was in Jacksonville, Florida, in the spring of 1999. It was a U.S. friendly against Germany. This was not long after Bruce Arena took over. So there was a lot of negativity in '98, obviously around that World Cup performance by the U.S., Bruce comes in. And you and I actually did an interview before the game, which is what I often did for Sports Illustrated magazine, because I wanted to have something in the can for my story.
But you never knew how that player you interviewed would do in the game. And you scored an awesome goal in that game. The U.S. wins 3-0 against Germany. That ends up being the magazine story, you, that I ended up writing that week. So I will always eternally be thankful to any player who after I interviewed them, then goes and has a great game. So thank you for doing that.
Jovan Kirovski:
[Laughs] It was great for me, Sports Illustrated, when you did this, it was a bit, soccer never got in there very often, early days. So it was cool to be in there. And yeah, I did have a decent game too, and it was against Germany. It was good. Yeah, I was happy. It was good.
Grant Wahl:
But it also is just such a small world, because here we are 22 years later and we're still talking to each other, so….
Jovan Kirovski:
We're getting old, man, geez.
Grant Wahl:
We are, we're in our 40s now, but it's also cool. Just to see how that game was part of, I think the U.S. maybe turning things around a little bit. It was just a friendly, but still it was beating Germany. I know you ended up playing 62 times for the national team. Are you bummed out from a World Cup perspective that you weren't able to do maybe what you were hoping to?
Jovan Kirovski:
I had a great run in the national team programs. I was involved a lot. It was somewhat disappointing of course, not to be part of a World Cup. But I think it was my own fault in a lot of places. Some of the things I did maybe as a team player, ... I don't know, looking back now, I understand. If I didn't play a game, I was a little bit … And I talked to Bruce about this too, afterward. Maybe people thought of me maybe disruptive as well as when I wasn’t playing. But I regret, yeah, of course I'd want to be part of a World Cup. I would have wanted to, but I had a good run and I played a lot of games for the national team, and I was always proud to play for the national team. But yeah, not being part of a World Cup, yeah, for sure.
Grant Wahl:
You come in and you play a lot of good years in MLS, win a championship. Then you were an assistant to Bruce, right, for a year after that? So how did you go about deciding whether you wanted to be a coach or more of a technical director like you currently are?
Jovan Kirovski:
I was very fortunate, as soon as I finished playing, Bruce gave me that opportunity I'm very grateful for. I was very lucky that I could transition straight into it. I love the game. I was getting my coaching badges a year, two years before I was going to end [playing]. Because I was driving from San Diego, I was going to LA, I had my house and everything all set up. I thought I was going to retire. But Bruce kept saying, "Oh, just play another year." And I was, and I just kept playing. So it ended up, I was driving an hour and a half each way, but then eventually it kept going. Bruce put me on his staff, which was fantastic for me. We won a championship my last year, we won a championship my first year as an assistant.
Then this role, where the club is growing, and this role came up. I think it was, I don't know if Chris was the president or Tim Leiweke was there, but it was just an ideal position for somebody like myself, somebody who's played around the world, who has contacts everywhere. We were going in this way, and it was perfect. This is something, I've always wanted to do this, because I know with my contacts, connections. I love the business side. I love to negotiate. I love the hustle of it, and it just fit. It just fit and it's grown over time. Obviously these positions have grown in all the teams in MLS now. People are building out now scouting departments. So it just worked, and it fit. And I was very fortunate to be able to do it here.
Grant Wahl:
I've also enjoyed some of the media stuff you did for Fox Sports with the Bundesliga, which they had for a few years. Do you want to do media again in the future? Or what's your stance on that?
Jovan Kirovski:
It was something that I never thought of. They came to me because they were here in LA, I played in the Bundesliga. When they first said it, I was like, "No way." Because I wasn't a big media guy. When I was a player, I was quiet. I just liked to go play, to a point where people thought I was arrogant, because I was just shy. I didn't want to talk to the media. I thought, "Okay," they pushed me enough to say, "Okay, I'm going to do this." And for me it was scary. I'm going up there, the red light's on. But I felt good afterwards. It was fun. I had a lot of fun. I enjoyed it. It was really interesting. Would I do it in the future? I don't know. I love my job now. I love what I do, but it was pretty cool. It was fun. I thought it was really fun to do.
Grant Wahl:
I thought your insight was good. I remember you doing a couple of things like with Christian Pulisic, meeting him over at Dortmund, and doing some feature stories. It’s an interesting time in soccer media. You should think about doing a podcast at some point.
Jovan Kirovski:
Yeah, we'll see (laughs).
Grant Wahl:
Well, like what do you want to do in the future? Did you want to keep doing what you're doing? Is there anything else?
Jovan Kirovski:
I think this is what I love to do. I love to be at a club like this, challenging all the time. The pressure is always on. I travel the world. I love the game. I love winning. So being part of a team and winning is important, but I enjoy what I do. I love my job. I love it, and I love being part of it. It's something that I want to continue to do
Grant Wahl:
Jovan Kirovski is the technical director for the LA Galaxy. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
Jovan Kirovski:
Thanks for having me, thank you.
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