The Interview: Doug McIntyre of Fox Sports
The Longtime Soccer Journalist Goes In-depth on This Week's USMNT World Cup Qualifiers
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Grant Wahl:
Our guest now is one of my favorite people in the media business. Doug McIntyre is a Fox Sports soccer writer and U.S. men's national team insider. He's been covering American soccer going back to 2002, including previously at ESPN and Yahoo Sports. You can find him on Twitter at @ByDougMcIntyre. Doug, it's great to see you. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
Doug McIntyre:
It's great to see you Grant. Thanks for having me.
Grant Wahl:
Lots to talk about. We're recording this on Friday, we're coming out Monday morning. This week, we have the biggest U.S. men's national team games in four years, really, with three World Cup qualifiers coming up at El Salvador, hosting Canada, and at Honduras. What are you most looking forward to seeing in these games?
“It really is one of those things that no matter how much you get told about [playing on the road in CONCACAF World Cup qualifying], no matter how much your teammates try to prepare you, you can only really understand it if you experience it yourself.” — Doug McIntyre
Doug McIntyre:
I'm looking forward to that first whistle blowing, Grant. It's been a long time. World Cup qualifying is awesome, in CONCACAF it's crazy, as you know. We got a little bit of a preview this summer at the Gold Cup and the Nations League, some of the shenanigans that go on, but that's amplified during qualifying. And especially when you go on the road to some of these smaller countries where the entire country is against whatever team the host is playing.
And that goes for hotel staff, bus drivers, the police that are guarding you, you name it. So, you've been down there. The fields are terrible. It's always interesting. I mean, the sort of moment I like to think of, and I can't remember if you were there, Grant, but in the 2014 cycle, the U.S. went down to Antigua and Barbuda.
Grant Wahl:
Yes!
Doug McIntyre:
They played an Antigua, and Eddie Johnson scores the goal right at the end of the match, U.S. wins. But if you were in the press box, as we were, you're looking on Twitter, everyone's killing the U.S. team, "How was this even a game? How's it even close?" And I felt the same way. And to get to the press conference after the game, we literally had to walk across the field. It was a torrential downpour, and it was a cricket oval. And the center of the field was raised up three or four inches from the rest of the field. There's huge puddles.
And at the time I was just thinking "Barcelona," and that was in the middle of their tiki-taka era, "they couldn't have done anything on that field. They couldn't have played." So it really is, it's a whole different animal, and it's a street fight more than it's a soccer game. So I can't wait for it to start.
Grant Wahl:
And that brings me to my next question. Only six players on the U.S. roster had played in World Cup qualifiers before. Do you think a player like Sergiño Dest, who happens to be a Barcelona player, who has not played in Central America before, do you think he fully knows what's coming in terms of what you're talking about? The fan response, the field quality, the gamesmanship, the CONCACAF referee?
Doug McIntyre:
It really is one of those things that no matter how much you get told about it, no matter how much your teammates try to prepare you, you can only really understand it if you experience it yourself. And I can't remember if Dest has played in CONCACAF games at the youth level, if he's played in some of those youth tournaments, CONCACAF championships against Mexico, things like that, that are often in a lot of the same venues that the U.S. is going to visit during the Octagonal.
But yeah, there's going to be a learning curve for some of these players. And that's why I think it's going to be really important for guys like Christian Pulisic, DeAndre Yedlin, John Brooks, the guys that have been there before, to lead the way, especially in that first game, in San Salvador.
“I don't think any team is going to be able to roll 11 starters in three straight games. That's just not realistic. So it's going to benefit the bigger teams in CONCACAF.” — Doug McIntyre
Grant Wahl:
The U.S. has three qualifiers happening in a very short time span. We haven't seen this before. It's due to COVID obviously, and having to pack more games into the schedule. How much rotation do you think we'll see in these games? And do you think we'll even get to see a starting lineup that is a full Best XI lineup?
Doug McIntyre:
Yeah, it's a great question. It's going to be the same for every team. I don't think any team is going to be able to roll 11 starters in three straight games. That's just not realistic. So it's going to benefit the bigger teams in CONCACAF: Mexico, the United States, Costa Rica to a lesser extent, that have more depth. And we've certainly seen how much depth the U.S. has uncovered just this summer, looking at the Gold Cup, a number of players that I think that back in June, no one would've thought would have been on the qualifying roster. And now here we are.
So there'll be a good deal of rotation. There's some questions with injuries, Christian Pulisic's status we're not quite sure about, so we'll see what happens, but there is going to be rotation for sure. And I think quite a lot of it. And I think especially up front with the attacking players, you're going to want to see Gregg Berhalter from a U.S. point of view, the U.S. coach is going to want to see a little bit of stability, I think in goal and with his defenders. But when you get to the guys who are going to be running a lot, they're not going to be able to do that for three games in a week.
Grant Wahl:
That totally makes sense. I agree with you there. Speaking of goalkeeper, do you think there's any question about Zack Steffen being the number one U.S. goalkeeper right now?
Doug McIntyre:
A lot of people have a lot of questions about that Grant. I'm not one of them. I think Steffen is the number one for the U.S., he has been since Gregg Berhalter took over. Gregg obviously knows him from their time together in Columbus. And even though he's not playing for Manchester City, I think when you look at the comfort level with some of the defenders he's going to have in front of him—John Brooks, Sergiño Dest that we've already mentioned—you want to have that continuity, as great as Turner was at the Gold Cup.
But there is an argument to be made that Zack Steffen hasn't played a match since June, and he's not starting for Man City in the Premier League week in and week out. And Matt Turner is the best goalkeeper in MLS for the best team in MLS. So if Zack Steffen goes down injured, we saw that happen in the Nations League final, I don't think there'll be any hesitation to throw Turner in, because I think Berhalter believes he's up for the challenge if he gets it.
Grant Wahl:
What do you think is a reasonable expectation for points for the U.S. to have after these first three qualifiers? You've obviously got nine points up for grabs, but as we've seen over the years, getting results in Central America and Mexico on the road is difficult.
Doug McIntyre:
Yes. And last cycle, and we all know what happened last cycle with the U.S. not qualifying, it was the first time the U.S. didn't get a single win on the road. And ultimately, there were a lot of things that went into that failure, but that was certainly one of them. If they eke out just one more point somewhere along the way, I think of the Panama game away, where the U.S. was winning that game and ended up conceding an equalizer, that's the difference between going to a World Cup or not.
“I really think the U.S. in that first game in San Salvador is going to be a little more aggressive than they would be if it was Costa Rica or Mexico. And they're really going to try for the three points to take a little bit of the pressure off going into that second match in Nashville against Canada.” — Doug McIntyre
It's interesting though, the way these games come, you're not playing Mexico in the first game, you're playing El Salvador. And no disrespect to them, they're a good team. They showed that in the Gold Cup, they have a good coach and they're a quality side, but on paper, they're one of the weaker teams you're going to face in the Octagonal.
So I think the U.S. has to think it can go in there and get three points in the first game. And if they do that, then it really gives them a little bit of breathing room, it gives them some momentum for the home game against Canada. And we know the formula, Grant, you win your home games and you try to get a point on the road. And if you do that, you're going to qualify.
But I really think the U.S. in that first game in San Salvador is going to be a little more aggressive than they would be if it was Costa Rica or Mexico. And they're really going to try for the three points to take a little bit of the pressure off going into that second match in Nashville against Canada.
Grant Wahl:
Now you're going to be covering these games for Fox Sports. How are you approaching it? How many of these games are you going to be at? We're just getting sort of into a slightly different phase of COVID, maybe, that is potentially allowing sort of in-person media opportunities with the U.S. team, we'll see how much. How are you approaching all this?
Doug McIntyre:
I won't be at the first game in El Salvador, I will be at the second game in Nashville, and it's going to be weird to be back in a stadium and to be in a press conference that's not on the other side of a Zoom screen. And it's going to be great. I mean, all of us have done the best we can, given the circumstances, but you know Grant that nothing as a journalist beats being there, being on the ground.
It's the people you run into around town or in the hotel and the little conversations you have and just that face-to-face communication is so valuable. So I can't wait, I'm so looking forward to it, we'll see how things shake out with the other away games. I would expect that the big Mexico, Costa Rica games, if it's able to happen, I would hope that we'll be at those, but for this first window, I’m just going to stay in the U.S. for this one.
Grant Wahl:
So let's step back a little bit. What's your story? How did you get into soccer journalism in the first place?
“I'd go to Scotland in the summers and visit my grandparents, and they lived just outside Glasgow. And of course the Rangers-Celtic rivalry is one of the best in soccer, and it's the only sport there and it's all-consuming. And it was so weird when I'd come back home and you couldn't find even the scores a lot of times in the newspaper.” — Doug McIntyre
Doug McIntyre:
Yeah, it's a great question. It's a broad question. My parents were from Scotland, so the game was always around. I mean, I remember watching World Cups in Spanish before World Cups were broadcast on English-language TV in the United States. And I realized, I'm dating myself a little bit saying that, but that's the reality of it. So my mother was a long-time journalist and editor, so there were always books in my house.
I devoured the newspaper every single morning. And I was a huge sports fan as a kid growing up. And I thought it was amazing that there really was no... I grew up in New York City, and here I am in the biggest city in the United States, and soccer, from a media point of view, just didn't exist.
I mean, it's hard to believe, and it's hard to explain to people nowadays what that was like, but I'd go to Scotland in the summers and visit my grandparents, and they lived just outside Glasgow. And of course the Rangers-Celtic rivalry is one of the best in soccer, and it's the only sport there and it's all-consuming.
And it was so weird when I'd come back home and you couldn't find even the scores a lot of times in the newspaper. But things obviously started to change with the World Cup in '94, it started to get more mainstream. I was fortunate to land a job at ESPN and started as a freelance fact-checker there. And in the lead up to the 2006 World Cup, there were some opportunities to write about soccer. I went to my editors and said, "I know about this stuff."
And they said "Okay, well, let's see what you’ve got." And it's kind of gone from there. I can't believe it's been this long. I've been incredibly fortunate. It's the best job in the world. It really is. I mean, my own background in sports was as a hockey player. I covered a little bit of hockey for ESPN, but I hear hockey writers talk about going to Buffalo and St. Paul and. great cities, but it's really cool when you work in soccer and you end up in places like São Paulo or London, or all over the world. It really is the global game, and that's appealed to me from the beginning.
Grant Wahl:
I think you and I are very similar in liking that. And also having had this sport take us to some places we might never have gone. You've done great work, obviously, for a lot of years now, for ESPN, for Yahoo Sports. Now you're with Fox Sports, which is great news. How did that come about?
Doug McIntyre:
Yeah, it's funny. I didn't know what was going to happen after I left Yahoo. I didn't know if I wanted to keep doing this. I mean, I think in a perfect world, I would, but I also felt like maybe I was ready for a different challenge, but certainly was open to any possibility. And it was something where I was actually quite close to taking another job, not in soccer.
And it sort of came together really late, but I couldn't be happier. It's a great place to work. The people that I'm working with are fantastic. And obviously [Fox Sports is] the rights holder for the World Cup in the United States, which is important as well.
So really my job is to sort of compliment all the other stuff that Fox is doing on the soccer front. And I just started over a month ago, but it's been fantastic so far. And the fun part hasn't really started yet. I mean, once we get into qualifying and then the World Cup, which is just over a year away, it's really hard to believe, but it's so exciting and I'm so lucky and fortunate to get another opportunity to do this.
Grant Wahl:
It was pretty great, actually, because I found out that you had joined Fox through a video post that you had done on the U.S., I think during the Gold Cup maybe?
Doug McIntyre:
Yeah. It was.. They actually scooped me. Which is fine. I mean, no problem at all. So it was kind of funny the way it happened. It was late at night. I think it was after the group-stage game against Martinique. It was a late game, and then there's the press conference after, and I started getting text messages saying "Hey, why are you in the press conference? Who are you working for?" And then that video came out and of course you blew me up right away. So thank you for that. It's funny how it worked out, but again, I couldn't be more excited.
Grant Wahl:
So what is sort of your job description at Fox Sports? What are they asking you to do?
Doug McIntyre:
It’s a lot of national teams stuff, and MLS is obviously an important property for Fox as well, which is great because that's what my background is in. I was basically, along with Jeff Carlisle, the national team beat writer for ESPN for a number of years. And I really enjoyed that. And then when I went to Yahoo, my mandate was a bit more broad. It was covering the sport more at large. So this is a bit more of a combination of the two. It's great to be back on the national team beat.
And it was funny to join Fox in the middle of a tournament. And I jumped right into it. And then of course the U.S. women are playing in the Olympics at the same time. So I jumped right back into it. We’re talking on Friday, and Ronaldo ruined my afternoon (laughs). We were supposed to do this interview an hour ago, but I wrote a column [on him joining Man City] and had to rip it up and write another one on him joining Manchester United. So of course, we're going to cover the big stories, the things that people are talking about. That's sort of my mandate at Fox.
Grant Wahl:
And based on what I've seen so far, you're doing some video stuff for them too, right?
Doug McIntyre:
Yeah. It's important, as you know, Grant, to be able to do everything nowadays. I'm very grateful for the folks out there that still read, but you have to be able to do everything now. So it's great. I joke that it's easier than writing because when you're done, you're done. You're not sitting around thinking about it, but it's hard, as you know. It's not always easy, but it's been okay so far and I've gotten great coaching, so I hope that'll continue and I'll continue to improve.
Grant Wahl:
Kind of a random question here, but are you sensing kind of like I am, that there are more hardcore fans of the U.S. men's national team than ever before, even with the failure to qualify for the last World Cup?
Doug McIntyre:
I really am. You see it, you see the excitement, and it's a great time because there was so much negativity, understandably, following that failure in 2017. And it took a while for it to come back. I mean, I think there was still that lingering sense of impending doom that we've all been feeling for the past year, but certainly for U.S. fans, it started in 2017.
And even during the Gold Cup in 2019, where the U.S. goes to the final against Mexico under Gregg Berhalter, they have a great tournament, but they lose that game on a late goal 1-0. And again, that sort of sense of dread and negativity came roaring back. But even in the two years since then, there's just been too much good news, I think, to ignore the players like Dest who could have played for the Netherlands, he chooses the U.S..
A bunch of players like Gio Reyna that have emerged, Chris Richards, guys that have come out of nowhere and all of a sudden they're playing for some of the biggest clubs in the world. I mean, there's too many to name, Weston McKennie. We wouldn't have thought a year and a half ago that he would be at Juventus or that Dest would be at Barcelona.
So it's just such an exciting time to be a fan of the U.S. men's national team. And certainly the results this summer, the two cup wins against Mexico, have invigorated the fan base even more. But none of that means anything now. It's all about World Cup qualifying, and that's what's kind of fascinating about it. And if the U.S. team goes down and loses in El Salvador, or if they don't get three points against Canada, it's going to be the same thing. Everyone is going to come after the team.
And that's the way it should be. I mean, that's how fans are all around the world, but I'm certainly enjoying the excitement that's around this team. It's good for us in our line of work, right?
Grant Wahl:
Yeah, it definitely is. And I guess my last question would just be this seven-month World Cup qualifying campaign, it's going to be wild, like something we have not seen ever before. From having the three games in most of the windows to having more teams involved, having to have 14 games overall. What's sort of your mood right now, if you think about what those seven months could look like and how many sort of unexpected storylines there might be that we can't even imagine right now?
Doug McIntyre:
Yeah. It's crazy. You get sort of used to, when you do this job for a while, the rhythm, the natural four-year rhythm. Qualifying starts at the same time, you kind of know what it's like. And we've all, again, had to adapt and get used to things being different and watching the Premier League last summer, and it was just weird, Champions League in August. It's like, what's happening?
So this is more of the same, we're prepared for it. I think it's great. I think more games are better. You see a team like Canada that probably wouldn't have been in under the old format, and they're involved, and that's a really good team now. So again, we started off this conversation talking about how great these games are, so who could argue with having more of them?
And yeah, it's going to be really interesting. You have games in January, which we haven't seen in a long time. The Canada away game's in January, that's going to be interesting, wherever that's played. Right? So yeah, there's going to be so many storylines that the three-game windows, I mean the two-game windows were hard enough to navigate. So with three, it's a challenge for everyone, but the cool thing is that it's new for everyone also. Everyone's in the same boat, and we're all kind of going through this together, but I think it's fantastic. I mean, what else could you want? If you're a soccer fan, a fan of this team, to see your team play more, it's great.
Grant Wahl:
You got me fired up, my man. Very much ready to get this thing going. Doug McIntyre is a Fox Sports soccer writer and U.S. men's national team insider. He's been covering American soccer going back to 2002. You can find him on Twitter at @ByDougMcIntyre. Doug, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Doug McIntyre:
Thank you Grant, it was a pleasure.
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